ca_gere Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 the shit 3 hairstyle having chattering classesLe Stu aged 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Le Stu aged 12.lol that came later. if you were in elgin in the early 90s you will know exactly what I'm talking about. hairforce was a fucking pleb factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 I didn't realise that in your utopian vision of the educational system only the fatties, poofters, cripples, stinkers and toffs would be singled out... but you forgot to mention the swots and that was careless of you. I assume the kids deemed to be normal and reflecting the proper median of society (no matter their creed, colour or background) would be safe.Don't worry, school is all about the social experience Harrison.I think you misunderstand me. Swots should get bullied too. I believe school should be a bit dog eat dog, just not segregated by money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oedo 808 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I don't think private schools are the problem with our educational system.The problem is when the state, for misguided idealogical reasons, attempts to use the school system to make everybody equal. I am a proponent of education based on ability to learn but I don't think our education system holds true to that ideal. At the very least ability plays second fiddle to this larger social agenda. (Closing of Grammar Schools) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 They are (excluding scholarships) only accessible by the wealthy, regardless of intellectual ability. The standard of education as measured by exam results are seen to be better, albeit often on the back of regurgitated essays and parrot style repetition. Regardless of the level or quality of education available in private schools, what I find objectionable about private schooling is (as I've already said) the principle that we should have a two tier system in which the majority are discriminated against on a purely financial basis.As an aside, one of my colleagues was a scholarship student to one of the Edinburgh private schools. As a scholarship student, she was expected to do extra chores and was expected to follow a different set of rules than the wealthier fee paying students. As I said, it's only my opinion, but I believe that private education is ethically indefensible.Absolute rubbish imo, my dad was a joiner for the council and my mum a telephonist for a bank and they worked night and day so all 3 of us could go to Gordons (admitedly something that comparitavely with the current price of fees might not be doable i dont know), my dad did homers every week pretty much, and I genuinelly think it was a good thing for all of us, and has benefitted us. There are rich and elitist twats at private school undoubtedly, but that's the same for all of us. If you're lazy and not willing to work it doesnt matter whether you go to state school or private aschool you wont get much out of it, if you're willing to put the effort in I genuinelly think, if you can afford it you will get a better education at private school (this may have changed its been 16 years since I left school, but thats how it was when I was there), I would also say that whether you have the 'superior' attitude etc that is presumed to be from private school is far more something that is instilled at home, as no-one ever believes i went to a private school and I think thats far more to do with the attitude of people, something I think comes from the attitude shown at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Von Mondragon Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 What nonsense, it's a pillar of the establishment, and as such, generally small c conservative, all sorts work there. Now, just because the BBC has rightly decided that it's time for a wee bit of belated strikey back at some of it's more ideologically motivated critics, (see Andrew Neill's prog last night about the posho re-taking of politics, by a total right-winger to be on the safe side), doesn't mean anything other than righteous self-defence, against the agents of News Corp.The BBC is inherently ace in a way free market ideologues are not intelectually equipped to understand; what know they of nuance or subtlety, those who deal in comms hacking, triangulation and gotchas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 The BBC is inherently ace in a way free market ideologues are not intelectually equipped to understand; what know they of nuance or subtlety, those who deal in comms hacking, triangulation and gotchas.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Von Mondragon Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Noel has not yet settled to his natural level, Living TV or somesuch, anyhoo, if you never saw Swap Shop in its prime, then you could never understand!? I meant the Belgrano gotcha, not a *shudder* pranksters sub Dom DeLoise shtick.He didn't seem as weird then, honest, he hadn't gone prime time, thats when the sinister shit started going down. Icke seemed normal once too remember!! (I can't helps it, the 70s are a perpetual sunlit/crisp snowy upland in my memory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Noel has not yet settled to his natural level, Living TV or somesuch, anyhoo, if you never saw Swap Shop in its prime, then you could never understand!? I meant the Belgrano gotcha, not a *shudder* pranksters sub Dom DeLoise shtick.He didn't seem as weird then, honest, he hadn't gone prime time, thats when the sinister shit started going down. Icke seemed normal once too remember!! (I can't helps it, the 70s are a perpetual sunlit/crisp snowy upland in my memory)They seemed a bit brown, from what I recall, and a bit 'strikey'. Still the grammar school educated sent that bunch packing eventually.But it's good Noels working again, bringing joy to good Christian people, blessing them with the randomness of numbered boxes Our Lord sends them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Like I said, this is my opinion based on my own experience (I have no dealings with Gordonstoun and I realise that private education in Edinburgh is different to the rest of Scotland), but I believe that private education is unethical. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I am happy that my view is based on my ethics and my experience. If you want to play Devil's Advocate about it, should a father really have to do cash in hand work on the side as well as a full time and well paid job just to make sure his kids can go to school? As for Robert's griping over why I think private schooling is bad even though I don't agree with some of the tenets that education is based on, I refer you to the above. If you need me to get all Godwin's Law about it, I'd still think the Nazis were baddies even if they started gassing Goebbel's family. HIstory for the win etc.Robert, I'm not really sure what your particular problem is with state education, and I am genuinely interested. I am not for a minute suggesting that state schooling is perfect - far from it - but what I am saying is that I believe in the principle of free education for all, much as I believe in the principle of free health care for all. A two tier education system (just like a two tier health system) can only ever be divisive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 We do have free education for all though, just as we have free health care for all. The existence of private schools and Bupa actually takes pressure off our public education and health care systems.I suppose it's unethical for me to see a private dentist as well? I prefer the choice, especially the choice to not have mercury fillings.This country has an unhealthy obsession with 'fairness', IMO. I'm all for welfare to support general public health and well being but I fail to see how those of means purchasing their own services is unethical, especially if they've worked their way up in life and want a different experience for their kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 That's your opinion, and I respect it. As I said, everyone has the right to disagree with me. However, in a country without the private sector in health or education, governments would finally be forced to spend the money they should have been spending all along on these sectors. I do not believe that a society divided by wealth in respect to either education or health is getting things right.Maybe I should point out that I also think far too many people go to university and that degrees are being devalued. The only criteria for further or higher education should be ability. "Killing time at uni" is a fucking ridiculous concept.What a conundrum eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yeah we definitely need more focused undergrads and unis like Robert Gordons, with strong industrial links, which represent a real network. It is who you know as much as what you know. As yet, we don't know the future of tuition and higher education In Scotland. I'd sooner we had a public system based on merit rather than ability to pay, and apply that to the top percentage of a school year. So, if you don't make the grade you'll have to pay or consider your options more carefully.I don't believe in combating wealth inequality though, I see it as futile, even self-defeating. Better to accept the stratified society and empower those individuals who can better themselves and attain mobility, IMO. My own family came out of the London working-classes and opportunity was all it took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 School is for queers anyway. Real men should be doing heroin behind the bike sheds, private school or otherwise.xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oedo 808 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Jon,I also believe in the principle of free education and health care for all. A father shouldn't have to work on the side just to put his children to school - nor does he. It's a choice; your ethical argument escapes me. Ethically do the state schools not have an obligation to their pupils to be every bit as good as public school? Is this a moral failure on their part? I'm not really following your Nazi analogy either. That just confused me.My problem with state education is that it's not very good. Through sheer ineptitude it has allowed the class gap to widen. I would love to see a more equal society but the role of education should be to enable upwards, not to drag the upper and the upper middle downwards. If some people get eggs for breakfast and the rest have to make do with shitcakes I would prefer to see a society where more people get to eat eggs rather than a society where we break all the eggs into little pieces, kill all the chickens and force everyone to have shitcakes.Out of curiosity, what does everyone think of faith schools? Morally wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Out of curiosity, what does everyone think of faith schools? Morally wrong?Absolutely fucking disgusting IMO, Brainwashing kids, teaching whatever the fuck they want and it's never the kids choice. Opting not to teach a child the depths of understanding that mankind has reached about our own existance is just fucking cruel if you ask me.On the other hand, you have different fingers.xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 In RE at my high school we learned about all the different religions, and none were presented as right or wrong. I don't really see a problem in that respect. My Catholic Primary School on the other hand weren't so open minded. Praying 4 times a day. Going to Church to sing hymns once a fortnight. Pretty crass to force that on pre-teens. I had to write lines on my first day because I ate my sandwich before saying Grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Out of curiosity, what does everyone think of faith schools? Morally wrong?Fair enough, IMO. If people want to raise their kids in a faith-based tradition, that's their look out. If they're teaching garbage though, they shouldn't be accredited.(in before smartarses, by garbage I don't mean religious studies, but alternative 'scientific' views) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 In RE at my high school we learned about all the different religions, and none were presented as right or wrong. I don't really see a problem in that respect..Agree there, but in my primary school and at academy (both public schools) the attitude was "there are many religions all around the world, but christians are right and everyone else is a fucking idiot, worshipping their elephants and shit. Freaks."I have an axe to grind with religious RE teachers in general tbh because if you're gonna teach RE, it needs to be completely unbiased. If you're gonna argue that kids deserve a spiritual education and the right to worship freely, I agree, but they deserve the right to pick any religion they want and not be fed one specifically by either their teachers or their parents.xxEDIT: Religious RE teachers as in RE teachers who are biased towards one faith in particular and think of the others as blasphemy, or as being wrong or less valuable in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimyReizeger Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 in a country without the private sector in health or education, governments would finally be forced to spend the money they should have been spending all along on these sectors. ?This country has poured money into education.Perhaps one reason we lag behind in international tables is the devalued role of the scoolteacher - talented people are put off going into teaching by the low entry requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Jon,I also believe in the principle of free education and health care for all. A father shouldn't have to work on the side just to put his children to school - nor does he. It's a choice; your ethical argument escapes me. Ethically do the state schools not have an obligation to their pupils to be every bit as good as public school? Is this a moral failure on their part? I'm not really following your Nazi analogy either. That just confused me.My problem with state education is that it's not very good. Through sheer ineptitude it has allowed the class gap to widen. I would love to see a more equal society but the role of education should be to enable upwards, not to drag the upper and the upper middle downwards. If some people get eggs for breakfast and the rest have to make do with shitcakes I would prefer to see a society where more people get to eat eggs rather than a society where we break all the eggs into little pieces, kill all the chickens and force everyone to have shitcakes.Out of curiosity, what does everyone think of faith schools? Morally wrong?The Nazi reference was my little History teacher joke, but what I was saying is that the quality or otherwise of education in the private sector does not affect my feelings about the ethics of the principle of private education.Also, state education is often very good. It's a classic tabloid grievance that the kids are all awful, standards are slipping, the tail wags the dog etc. It's a misunderstanding that comes from overstating bad or extreme examples of the problems of schools and ignoring good and excellent examples.The "shitcakes" argument is the age old conservative complaint about comprehensive education. I don't believe it holds true, and there is a sizable body of academic research to support the idea that mixed ability groups can be of benefit to all concerned (holistically, if you will).I can't stress enough that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the ripostes you are posting are not fact, only opinion. Just like mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Also, I don't think faith schools have any place in a modern society but that's a whole different argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltz Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 How on earth would the abolition of private education improve state education?This sentence gives me the boke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 This sentence gives me the bokewell, your gastric movements don't answer my question, particularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I don't see anything remotely wrong with private education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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