Guest idol_wild Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am a big advocate of manipulating my vocals with some reverb and/or delay. Some of the venues I have played don't have the ability to make this work and I would like to bring my own set-up with me on tour, especially as I'm beginning to take my music a little bit more seriously. Plus, I want to start looping and layering vocal harmonies and use different effects on each vocal loop.Am I being naive to think that all I'll need is my own delay or reverb pedals added to the mic set-up? Or is this bad practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 are you trying to become the male sandi thom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Caz Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 are you trying to become the male sandi thom?........ shite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 are you trying to become the male sandi thom?No. I'm trying to become the male Kitchen Cynics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 No. I'm trying to become the male Kitchen Cynics. Alan is a lady? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 If you have a spare three/four hundred quid kicking about you could achieve a lot of those things with a vocoder, your current set of pedals and a small midi keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Alan is a lady?haha i was just going to say alan has been hiding a big secret for years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am a big advocate of manipulating my vocals with some reverb and/or delay. Some of the venues I have played don't have the ability to make this work and I would like to bring my own set-up with me on tour, especially as I'm beginning to take my music a little bit more seriously. Plus, I want to start looping and layering vocal harmonies and use different effects on each vocal loop.Am I being naive to think that all I'll need is my own delay or reverb pedals added to the mic set-up? Or is this bad practice? It's fraught with technical difficulties. Loopbacks would need to be controlled by you and shouldn't cause too much trouble but adding (and having the ability to adjust) your own FX onstage means you need a monitor mix that's going to rival the FOH* and still not feed back. Good luck with that. * otherwise you might have it sounding great on stage but it's a minging mess out front, and there's squat the engineer can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 It's fraught with technical difficulties. Loopbacks would need to be controlled by you and shouldn't cause too much trouble but adding (and having the ability to adjust) your own FX onstage means you need a monitor mix that's going to rival the FOH* and still not feed back. Good luck with that. * otherwise you might have it sounding great on stage but it's a minging mess out front, and there's squat the engineer can do about it.I was hoping you or unbroken would reply to this. Thanks for your input.Is it likely to be less troublesome if I leave behind the idea of looping and layering and just go with the general effect manipulation? I wouldn't change the settings of the effect much during a set, if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I was hoping you or unbroken would reply to this. Thanks for your input.Is it likely to be less troublesome if I leave behind the idea of looping and layering and just go with the general effect manipulation? I wouldn't change the settings of the effect much during a set, if at all. The looping and layering would be easier actually. Putting on reverb/delay really needs ears out front because there's not so much room for manoeuvre. Perhaps one way would be to split your vocal, send dry to foh and fx, then send the effected vox to foh as well. that would give the engineer some leeway as regards monitor, main level and EQ. For example, if the FX is feeding back in the mons, the engineer can take down the FX without reducing the dry feed. I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that there's so many rigs/engineers out there that aren't capable of doing a simple thing like chucking on a bit of reverb or delay. Personally I wouldn't go to the trouble and expense for something I'd expect the house/hire PA to be equipped with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Von Mondragon Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Top Tips; Sing into a pint glass, et voila, instant Reverb!God I haven't read Viz in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 The looping and layering would be easier actually. Putting on reverb/delay really needs ears out front because there's not so much room for manoeuvre. Perhaps one way would be to split your vocal, send dry to foh and fx, then send the effected vox to foh as well. that would give the engineer some leeway as regards monitor, main level and EQ. For example, if the FX is feeding back in the mons, the engineer can take down the FX without reducing the dry feed. I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that there's so many rigs/engineers out there that aren't capable of doing a simple thing like chucking on a bit of reverb or delay. Personally I wouldn't go to the trouble and expense for something I'd expect the house/hire PA to be equipped with.This is a very useful post. Thanks, Ian.The majority of venues do have the ability to lace the vocal with reverb or delay, but my main problem stems largely from the fact that I don't get the effect through the onstage monitors. And I really like to hear the effect through my monitor mix - it definitely aids my vocal performance.Given your advice, I think I'll lay off the idea of affecting the vocal myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHand Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Could you use some sort of in ear monitor?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Could you use some sort of in ear monitor??This was suggested to me actually. I know pretty much nothing about them, though. I must admit, the idea of using in-ear monitors really doesn't appeal to me.Do any of you have experience of using them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Would a Loop pedal and a little mixer like the Love of Everything chap not do the job? The one he was using seemed to have a nice little built in delay too, to make the guitar all spacey and loop in and out of itself. Didn't seem to lose any quality in the recordings either. Even the percussion loops sounded top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Would a Loop pedal and a little mixer like the Love of Everything chap not do the job? The one he was using seemed to have a nice little built in delay too, to make the guitar all spacey and loop in and out of itself. Didn't seem to lose any quality in the recordings either. Even the percussion loops sounded top.I didn't get close enough to see what his set-up was like actually. I was going to see if he was available for a wee chat later in the night and seek advice from him, but I was absolutely goobered by that point and really didn't want to embarrass myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Racked on a weekday? Party bastard!I'm pretty sure it was just a standard loop pedal with a guitar and a mic input, into a mixer, into the PA? Or maybe it was into an amp and the amp was mic'd?Scott might know it a bit better, since he was doing the sound and whatnot that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I don't know how much you were planning on spending on this venture Phil, but definitely the cheapest way to go about this is at the end of every line you sing, repeat the last word a few times whilst gradually moving away from the mic. Also saves the hassle of worrying about wrong delay tempos throwing you off. The singer of the band below is superb at it: Note at 0:52 and 1:14 how well he does this - I assumed it was a delay unit on first listen. And you thought Ian was helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Von Mondragon Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 If not a pint glass, then a biscuit tin will do, makes you look super cool, honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 This was suggested to me actually. I know pretty much nothing about them, though. I must admit, the idea of using in-ear monitors really doesn't appeal to me.Do any of you have experience of using them? If you're only looking at having reverb in your mons to help with pitching then IEMs are the best option. Not everyone likes them though. I assume this is for your solo work so a decent set of in-ear headphones would work, no need for fancy mouldings etc. since you don't need to block out various other noisy bastards. Feel free to PM me if you need any technical advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Dan, that video almost made me wet myself.Oh wait, hang on, it did.Curses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't know how much you were planning on spending on this venture Phil, but definitely the cheapest way to go about this is at the end of every line you sing, repeat the last word a few times whilst gradually moving away from the mic. Also saves the hassle of worrying about wrong delay tempos throwing you off. The singer of the band below is superb at it: Note at 0:52 and 1:14 how well he does this - I assumed it was a delay unit on first listen. And you thought Ian was helpful.that why i love youtube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootray Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't know how much you were planning on spending on this venture Phil, but definitely the cheapest way to go about this is at the end of every line you sing, repeat the last word a few times whilst gradually moving away from the mic. Also saves the hassle of worrying about wrong delay tempos throwing you off. The singer of the band below is superb at it: Note at 0:52 and 1:14 how well he does this - I assumed it was a delay unit on first listen. And you thought Ian was helpful.Hahahahaha, that was fucking brilliant, but oh so shite at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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