unbroken Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 To join the conversation, I had an Ampeg SVT4 which was rated at 1200watts, but I could never get it to sound good once it got passed a certain volume. I seemed to run out of headroom quite quickly with that amp, then I got the Mesa 400+ and thats easily louder, and its rated at like 300-400watts I think. BUT, I did a tube modification where you take the drive tube and replace it from a 12ax7 to a 12au7, thus giving you a smaller output volume wise from the pre amp, but thats what master volume controls are for! Much more control over the EQ and the headroom is unbelievable. This thing never has to go passed 3 or 4, its so loud!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 To join the conversation, I had an Ampeg SVT4 which was rated at 1200watts, but I could never get it to sound good once it got passed a certain volume. I seemed to run out of headroom quite quickly with that amp, then I got the Mesa 400+ and thats easily louder, and its rated at like 300-400watts I think. BUT, I did a tube modification where you take the drive tube and replace it from a 12ax7 to a 12au7, thus giving you a smaller output volume wise from the pre amp, but thats what master volume controls are for! Much more control over the EQ and the headroom is unbelievable. This thing never has to go passed 3 or 4, its so loud!!I forget, has the Mesa got a 9-band aswell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I forget, has the Mesa got a 9-band aswell?no, its not 9, think its maybe 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 no, its not 9, think its maybe 7.I can't be doing with them, I just don;'t know enough about frequencies to know what to do. Besides, I see limited use for them on valve amps because they pretty much always sound awesome! I just want gain, bass, mid , treb. Not that i'd say no to a mesa or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewarden Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Finally got round to fixing my B1-RE after around a year.Looking forward to hearing it cranked up and practice tonight.Next stop:new bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Finally got round to fixing my B1-RE after around a year.Looking forward to hearing it cranked up and practice tonight.Next stop:new bassYou should buy that warwick Dave is selling... The fifth string is a B. Is that not what CTS tune to?EDIT: Dave as in WoodyRATM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewarden Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 You should buy that warwick Dave is selling... The fifth string is a B. Is that not what CTS tune to?I really dinae fancy it,want to get a fender jazz first.Tuning wise managing ok with thicker gauge strings just now, got a mate with a five string so may end up borrowing that if I start struggling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 The fancy EQ isn't necessary for everyone but it does help you seperate 'mud' from 'meat'. For example 500hz is usually mud but 300hz might be meat. Some bass guitars like Fender Jazz are nearer the expected bass guitar sound by default. You learn how to use it by playing around with it yourself and speaking to people who know how to use them and getting advice on it.Once I recorded a Fender USA Jazz bass (Kieran Imray) through an Ashdownl EVO combo with an AKG C414 microphone infront of the speaker. We preferred the sound with bypassing the EQ on the amp. Very happy with the end result.Ashdown EVO amps have the main 3 band EQ and 2 bands inbetween for more precise adjustment (7 band EQ in total).My advice is. cut below 60. Boost at 300, cut at 500, boost at 1.8K and boost at 2.4K. Ocasionally you may also wish boost at 4K, depending on the style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 All fun and games until you have to lift them up 4 flights of stairs!Nae bother, I have learned many methods to move that thing up the most bizzare of staircases and in and out of vans, rehearsal rooms, venues, cars etc in the easiest way possibleYou mean scotty doesnt do it by himself?? pussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Nae bother, I have learned many methods to move that thing up the most bizzare of staircases and in and out of vans, rehearsal rooms, venues, cars etc in the easiest way possibleYou mean scotty doesnt do it by himself?? pussyyour back must be/is going to be an absolute state. however, i've ready the Aberdeenshire council H+S policyon heavy lifting, so i'm gonna be fine.srsly though. I find it tought enough with my 410. I don't think I could cope with an eight. I'll probably just upgrade to an svt 410hlf if anything or a bergantino cab. yummy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 I can't be doing with them, I just don;'t know enough about frequencies to know what to do. Besides, I see limited use for them on valve amps because they pretty much always sound awesome! I just want gain, bass, mid , treb. Not that i'd say no to a mesa or anything.if you know how they work and remember to be subtle with them, they can be your best friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Nae bother, I have learned many methods to move that thing up the most bizzare of staircases and in and out of vans, rehearsal rooms, venues, cars etc in the easiest way possibleYou mean scotty doesnt do it by himself?? pussyi can carry it up and down stairs like a pizza. Nae worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Also, just so you know, I don't really use the graphic EQ. I have the amps EQ flat, always, and when i need a tiny extra bit of whatever, I add it with the graphic, but as I say subtlety is the key. Also, why would you remove below 60Hz? Are you talking for recording purposes or in a live setting? I only ask because you will find that most bass cabinets are tuned so that they begin to roll off below 40Hz, this is because 40Hz is the first harmonic on the E string I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Well, it depends on the style and overall quality of bass amp to whether or not it is a good idea but it isn't all that unusual for the bass cab to be mic'd.Unless you are doing a recording (where you can move waveforms and use phase alignment plugins) it is often best just to chose one source as there will be a time difference between the mic and DI signal which will cause phase cancellation.I can see no benefit in using both in a small to medium size venue if you have edequate backline, its only benefit being as a back up for the di, or vise versa if the amp and cab create the desired sound. I suspect most live engineers prefer the simplicity of working with a di'd signal.The bass player I tech for (Graeme Murray/Pallas) likes to dial in a bit of distortion in his live sound and uses a mic and di. But they are usually playing fairly large gigs, so the back line distortion would be lost without a mic. Just thinking about it the bands back line requires 6 di's and 4 mic's.... woohoo.... rock'n'roll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Well, it depends on the style and overall quality of bass amp to whether or not it is a good idea but it isn't all that unusual for the bass cab to be mic'd.Unless you are doing a recording (where you can move waveforms and use phase alignment plugins) it is often best just to chose one source as there will be a time difference between the mic and DI signal which will cause phase cancellation.You get around that using a delay. We also run some channel delays on the FOH. For example, a guitar cab is located 4m back from the FOH speakers and is mic'd up, so you delay that mic channel to allow the sound from the cab to travel 4m and synch with it. If you don;t do that then the mix can sound very slightly fluffy. Ditto drums and bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 All fun and games until you have to lift them up 4 flights of stairs!No need. Just get a longer speaker cable. Depending on how far away the gig is, it may even be possible to route it from your house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Also, just so you know, I don't really use the graphic EQ. I have the amps EQ flat, always, and when i need a tiny extra bit of whatever, I add it with the graphic, but as I say subtlety is the key. Also, why would you remove below 60Hz? Are you talking for recording purposes or in a live setting? I only ask because you will find that most bass cabinets are tuned so that they begin to roll off below 40Hz, this is because 40Hz is the first harmonic on the E string I believe.On recording most deffinately but even live sitaution frequencies that low can result in mud but it depends on many things. And there can be a competition with kick drum in anything less than about 200-300. I personally find that bass guitar is not as much about 'bass' as it is 'cutting through' and gaining a nice overall sound which sits well in the mix. I am not an expert however, this is just been my experience of it. Jazz Bass with no EQ is a useable sound in my opinion (when played well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 On recording most deffinately but even live sitaution frequencies that low can result in mud but it depends on many things. And there can be a competition with kick drum in anything less than about 200-300. I personally find that bass guitar is not as much about 'bass' as it is 'cutting through' and gaining a nice overall sound which sits well in the mix. I am not an expert however, this is just been my experience of it. Jazz Bass with no EQ is a useable sound in my opinion (when played well).my opinion differs slightly. I prefer a sound where the kick drum is the "punch" and "attack" and the bass guitar is the "weight" in a live sound setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 my opinion differs slightly. I prefer a sound where the kick drum is the "punch" and "attack" and the bass guitar is the "weight" in a live sound setting.i think i agree with you on this one (although i probably would have described it the other way round). Sounds espcially good if bass and drums are locked in really tight, makes playing bass so much easier and sound so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam 45 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Yeah, an E string on a bass is roughly 40Hz. This the same as the fundamental harmonic of a kick drum, whilst the punch is round about 320Hz.Here is an interesting thought. Most systems will roll off around 40Hz whilst the b string on a 5-string bass is about 30Hz. What happens to the clarity of the B string in this case, is it lost completely, or does it sound muddy? I've never really thought this one through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Mac Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 It seems my Ampeg is criticised fairly often online for being a 'quiet' amp, so I'm guessing it's nothing to do with the actual wattage. All I know is that when practising with a band it needs to be cranked way up to be of any use and with the limiter utilised you can forget being heard at all.i think its just andy k's garage thats fucked dude i had to really crank myself up using john slok's SVT-4 when i was filling in for ASD and that is by no means a quiet head, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yeah, an E string on a bass is roughly 40Hz. This the same as the fundamental harmonic of a kick drum, whilst the punch is round about 320Hz.Here is an interesting thought. Most systems will roll off around 40Hz whilst the b string on a 5-string bass is about 30Hz. What happens to the clarity of the B string in this case, is it lost completely, or does it sound muddy? I've never really thought this one through.It wouldn't lose much clarity at all dude. Firstly you 'feel' more than 'hear' stuff around 30-40Hz; you're way into sub-bass territory there. And furthermore, as well as still having everything above 40Hz you'd still have all the harmonics of the low B at 60, 90, 120Hz etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huw Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 It wouldn't lose much clarity at all dude. Firstly you 'feel' more than 'hear' stuff around 30-40Hz; you're way into sub-bass territory there. And furthermore, as well as still having everything above 40Hz you'd still have all the harmonics of the low B at 60, 90, 120Hz etc.so the harmonics of the string are just multiples, like the harmonics of A 440Hz (?) would be 880Hz, 1320Hz etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 so the harmonics of the string are just multiples, like the harmonics of A 440Hz (?) would be 880Hz, 1320Hz etc?Correct.Harmonic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 i think its just andy k's garage thats fucked dude i had to really crank myself up using john slok's SVT-4 when i was filling in for ASD and that is by no means a quiet head,I thought it was quite quiet, thats why i sold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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