Aberdeen Venues

[kingofdeon]

Sorry lads didnt want to do that to one of the "good guys" on here and well one of the most punchable cunts....but i had to

I'll expect a signed Underkills EP now for free.....

[Flash@TMB]

Moshulu - 650

Lemon Tree - 600

Tunnel 1 - 360

Drummonds - 350

Tunnel 2 - 350 (?)

Snafu - 350

Moorings - 180 (?)

Cellar 35 - 80

Just a word to the wise. Whoever cited some of those capacities must have access to some pretty mean acid... either that or they're basing their calcs on 5 year old kids!

Calculating fire capacity is relatively simple. It's two people for every m2 of customer floor area. For seating it's 1.5 people per m2. That's not rocket science. Fire capacities are theoretical maximums, you really have to be squeezing people in to hit them. Personally I prefer to operate at less than 90% of the fire capacity for comfort reasons.

Moshulu looks about right. The Lemon Tree is probably correct as they are unlikely to tell porkies. Moorings is 190. No idea about Cellar 35.

The rest are guff. Some of them are overstated by more than 100%. Both Tunnels plus their foyer area combined and would perhaps come to 175m2. I've been hearing for years how Drummonds was 250, then 300, then 350, and once even heard it cited as 400. Well I hadn't been in there for 6 years so I popped in just before Christmas to check it out and almost fell over laughing Umm yeah sure thing buddy... don't eat the yellow snow.

I have a handheld laser gizmo than can do measure capacity with a couple of zaps (got it for range finding). It's also possible to make a reasonable estimate by pacing, provided you can make every pace close to 1m. My pacing and sighting is still pretty freaking accurate because I used to shoot field target. Reckon I can eyeball with 90% accuracy, to distances between 1 and 50 meters.

It's time that venues started being honest about their capacities. If we all played by the same rules of bullshit then I'd have to cite 375, which clearly, would be ridiculous

Of course during a gig it's possible to see 350 fans pass through a 200 cap venue. They just aren't all in the room at the same time. The obesity epidemic isn't helping either LOL.

If anyone wants to argue about this then don't bother, just PM me and we can go on a pub crawl with my laser. There's no point in getting into a pissing contest when it's so easy to confirm what the truth is.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

Sorry lads didnt want to do that to one of the "good guys" on here and well one of the most punchable cunts....but i had to

I'll expect a signed Underkills EP now for free.....

Why? Looking for a new frisbee?

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

Just a word to the wise. Whoever cited some of those capacities must have access to some pretty mean acid... either that or they're basing their calcs on 5 year old kids!

Calculating fire capacity is relatively simple. It's two people for every m2 of customer floor area. For seating it's 1.5 people per m2. That's not rocket science. Fire capacities are theoretical maximums, you really have to be squeezing people in to hit them. Personally I prefer to operate at less than 90% of the fire capacity for comfort reasons.

Moshulu looks about right. The Lemon Tree is probably correct as they are unlikely to tell porkies. Moorings is 190. No idea about Cellar 35.

The rest are guff. Some of them are overstated by more than 100%. Both Tunnels plus their foyer area combined and would perhaps come to 175m2. I've been hearing for years how Drummonds was 250, then 300, then 350, and once even heard it cited as 400. Well I hadn't been in there for 6 years so I popped in just before Christmas to check it out and almost fell over laughing Umm yeah sure thing buddy... don't eat the yellow snow.

I have a handheld laser gizmo than can do measure capacity with a couple of zaps (got it for range finding). It's also possible to make a reasonable estimate by pacing, provided you can make every pace close to 1m. My pacing and sighting is still pretty freaking accurate because I used to shoot field target. Reckon I can eyeball with 90% accuracy, to distances between 10 and 50 meters.

It's time that venues started being honest about their capacities. If we all played by the same rules of bullshit then I'd have to cite 375, which clearly, would be ridiculous

Of course during a gig it's possible to see 350 fans pass through a 200 cap venue. They just aren't all in the room at the same time. The obesity epidemic isn't helping either LOL.

If anyone wants to argue about this then don't bother, just PM me and we can go on a pub crawl with my laser. There's no point in getting into a pissing contest when it's so easy to confirm what the truth is.

I knew your laser chat would be on here within minutes

That's just what I was told by the individual venues.

Not that I want to argue with you or start a pissing contest. This is just an observation really. Lemon Tree is 600 capacity, I've seen there ticket sheets and all that guff, and I can't see them being made up based on lies or exaggeration. Is Tunnel 1 only a third of the size of Lemon Tree? Just looking at it I'd say it would be about half the size?

[Flash@TMB]

I knew your laser chat would be on here within minutes

That's just what I was told by the individual venues.

Not that I want to argue with you or start a pissing contest. This is just an observation really. Lemon Tree is 600 capacity, I've seen there ticket sheets and all that guff, and I can't see them being made up based on lies or exaggeration. Is Tunnel 1 only a third of the size of Lemon Tree? Just looking at it I'd say it would be about half the size?

You can't gauge capacity accurately by comparing one room with another. Capacity is a measure of floor space. It doesn't take into account whether someone can actually see (or even hear) the stage or not. It also doesn't take account of the shape or suitability of the room.

For venues with more than one room the fire capacity is the total of all rooms.

Ceiling height can be very deceptive to a persons eye. A high ceiling makes a room look bigger. A low ceiling makes it look smaller. With LT vs T1 you're comparing a cuboid(ish) room that has a high ceiling with a more complex layout that has a low ceiling. So yeah I reckon T1 is < 1/3 of the LT, assuming the 600 fig is accurate. I put T1 at 160-180, most likely being 170.

You want to know what the capacity is then measure the usable floor area, that's all that counts. Like I said it's not rocket science. I've had this discussion with a few people over the past year, some of them have gone and paced out a couple of places and been amazed.

So if a room is cuboid it's capacity = length x width (both in meters) x 2. Ta da!

[Guest idol_wild]

Just a word to the wise. Whoever cited some of those capacities must have access to some pretty mean acid... either that or they're basing their calcs on 5 year old kids!

Calculating fire capacity is relatively simple. It's two people for every m2 of customer floor area. For seating it's 1.5 people per m2. That's not rocket science. Fire capacities are theoretical maximums, you really have to be squeezing people in to hit them. Personally I prefer to operate at less than 90% of the fire capacity for comfort reasons.

Moshulu looks about right. The Lemon Tree is probably correct as they are unlikely to tell porkies. Moorings is 190. No idea about Cellar 35.

The rest are guff. Some of them are overstated by more than 100%. Both Tunnels plus their foyer area combined and would perhaps come to 175m2. I've been hearing for years how Drummonds was 250, then 300, then 350, and once even heard it cited as 400. Well I hadn't been in there for 6 years so I popped in just before Christmas to check it out and almost fell over laughing Umm yeah sure thing buddy... don't eat the yellow snow.

I have a handheld laser gizmo than can do measure capacity with a couple of zaps (got it for range finding). It's also possible to make a reasonable estimate by pacing, provided you can make every pace close to 1m. My pacing and sighting is still pretty freaking accurate because I used to shoot field target. Reckon I can eyeball with 90% accuracy, to distances between 10 and 50 meters.

It's time that venues started being honest about their capacities. If we all played by the same rules of bullshit then I'd have to cite 375, which clearly, would be ridiculous

Of course during a gig it's possible to see 350 fans pass through a 200 cap venue. They just aren't all in the room at the same time. The obesity epidemic isn't helping either LOL.

If anyone wants to argue about this then don't bother, just PM me and we can go on a pub crawl with my laser. There's no point in getting into a pissing contest when it's so easy to confirm what the truth is.

I absolutely knew you'd come on here disputing other Aberdeen venue capacities. You've always seemed to have a bee in your bonnet about that.

However, I'd say Tunnel 1 having a capacity of 300-350 is about right. Take away the tables at the sides, etc. I remember seeing 65daysofstatic and Kling Klang there a while back - all the tables and chairs removed, and it was full right up past the beginning of the bar. Maybe the IMP guys can reveal how many people were through the door at that gig? I'd hazard a guess of around 200-250? Was it sold out?

[Flash@TMB]

I absolutely knew you'd come on here disputing other Aberdeen venue capacities. You've always seemed to have a bee in your bonnet about that.

However, I'd say Tunnel 1 having a capacity of 300-350 is about right. Take away the tables at the sides, etc. I remember seeing 65daysofstatic and Kling Klang there a while back - all the tables and chairs removed, and it was full right up past the beginning of the bar. Maybe the IMP guys can reveal how many people were through the door at that gig? I'd hazard a guess of around 200-250? Was it sold out?

Number of people in means jack shit unless you know how many left.

I have a bee in my bonnet because I dislike bullshit.

If you want to know the capacity then how about just pacing it out. Just deal with the top bit and the bottom bit separately then add them together. Like I said it's not rocket science.

If you want to be super accurate then pace out 20 paces in the street then measure how far, to get a ratio of paces per meter beforehand.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

One other thing on this that bothers me is how can a place like Tunnels get away with telling promoters the capacity is 350. This isn't going to happen with any of the gigs I've got lined up, but what if you'd booked a very popular band, and sold all 350 tickets and all 350 people turn up at once?

Is this just a risk that Tunnels is willing to take, and if they ever sell out, and everyone turns up at once, they'll just have to stop folk from getting in despite having a valid ticket?

[Guest idol_wild]

Number of people in means jack shit unless you know how many left.

I would doubt very much that many, if any, left that gig until 65daysofstatic had ceased making a racket.

So I'd suggest it means a lot more than jack shit.

But anyway, I'm not getting into this argument or debate with you because it wasn't the initial point of the thread and it's not where I wanted the thread to go. Plus, you clearly know much more than anyone in the whole world when it comes to venue capacities and calculating them and guaging them.

[davewarden]

One other thing on this that bothers me is how can a place like Tunnels get away with telling promoters the capacity is 350. This isn't going to happen with any of the gigs I've got lined up, but what if you'd booked a very popular band, and sold all 350 tickets and all 350 people turn up at once?

Is this just a risk that Tunnels is willing to take, and if they ever sell out, and everyone turns up at once, they'll just have to stop folk from getting in despite having a valid ticket?

Just out of curiosity,have they actually told anyone this?

They wont stop folk getting in but they could get in shit if they get caught out!

[Guest idol_wild]

Just out of curiosity,have they actually told anyone this?

They wont stop folk getting in but they could get in shit if they get caught out!

Their website officialy states 300 as the capacity, it seems.

The Tunnels Aberdeen, independent music venue & restaurant About Us

I'll look forward to Flash suggesting it's 300 between the two rooms.

[Flash@TMB]

The physical structures of T1 and T2 are identical in size (that's obvious if you think about it). T1 has the front part of the floor dug out which makes the ceiling higher. If T2 has had the storage room removed from the side then the floor area would be identical except that the presence of stairs in T1 would make it a bit smaller. So if Hen is quoting 175(ish) for T2 then I'd expect T1 to be 170(ish).

If you add that together then you get near enough 350 as the capacity of the Tunnels (plural) which I believe was what they were quoting officially on their website the last time I looked.

EDIT: Oops I stand corrected, 300 on the website, but that was put on-line before the mods to T2.

[The Milner]

theres no way your gettting 300 people safely into tunnel 1, not a hope in hell.

[soundian]

Both Tunnels plus their foyer area combined and would perhaps come to 175m2.

I know you really mean 175 square metres.

[Flash@TMB]

I don't think there's ever a risk of selling beyond the physical capacity. Every venue faces this challenge. Say you have a capacity of 200 and you sell 50 tickets... how many do you let in the door? How many leave during the gig? How many ticket holders actually show?

How many Drummonds, Tunnels, or Moorings gigs sell more than 150 tickets in advance?

How many gigs keep track of how many people are actually in the room as opposed to how many have entered it?

In practice what happens is that the promoter knows how many adv tickets have been sold, and how many of those people have actually entered, how many people have yet to show up clutching a ticket, and therefore how much free space is required worst case scenario. People paying at the door are simply admitted up till that point. When people leave more are let in. It self regulates.

The fire capacity also self regulates. Two people per m2 is more densely packed than most people would be prepared to tolerate. Once you hit 80% of that figure some people start to leave. Once you hit 90% of that figure as many people are leaving as are seeking to enter. It would be hard to exceed 90%. By 90% people would be struggling to go for a piss or order a drink. Very few people ask for their money back when they leave of their own accord. And of course the capacity is always regulated by setting the ticket price. Ideally you balance it to attract the most people whilst achieving the highest gross.

Venues capacities are overstated for 3 reasons: rumour / general bullshit; people not being very good at counting heads (it's worth trying this for a laugh if you're ever bored at a gig); and to try and attract more popular acts. The catchment area of Aberdeen is 200K as opposed to 2M in the central belt. Promoters know that a band that plays a 350 cap venue elsewhere will probably only draw 200 people up here. The bands and booking agents might not appreciate this, so the promoter over states the cap to massage around the problem. Nobody complains if the place is rammed.

Never heard of anyone selling 350 adv tickets for a gig anywhere smaller than Moshulu or the Lemon Tree.

Personally I reckon it's better to be upfront about the capacity, and just communicate why this will be more than sufficient.

[Sam 45]

I'm putting on a show next month in a 100 capacity venue. After seeing the venue for the first time yesterday i'm pretty dumbfounded as to how 100 people are going to fit in. Might have to stack people on top of each other.

[Flash@TMB]

I know you really mean 175 square metres.

Hah yes. Good point. Shorthand FAIL eh?

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

Hen told me a while back 360 for Tunnel 1, 150 for Tunnel 2 and 350 for Drummonds. I've booked shows at these places and got tickets onsale etc, so if on the off chance that one of my shows sells out, there will be 350 people trying to get into Tunnel 1.

If what Flash is saying is true, then fuck knows what would happen.

And yeah, sorry Phil - back on topic. Another 100 capacity venue would be ace

[Flash@TMB]

Hen told me a while back 360 for Tunnel 1, 150 for Tunnel 2 and 350 for Drummonds. I've booked shows at these places and got tickets onsale etc, so if on the off chance that one of my shows sells out, there will be 350 people trying to get into Tunnel 1.

If what Flash is saying is true, then fuck knows what would happen.

And yeah, sorry Phil - back on topic. Another 100 capacity venue would be ace

It won't happen. But if it does then just set off the fire alarm. Provided the fire alarm is working properly then it should kill the PA. Problem solved!

EDIT: just imagine what might have happened if he'd told you the cap was 1,000,000!!! Boy would you be in deep shit.

[FatHand]

Shame about the music club place... that would have been a quality little venue.

[Soda Jerk]

More people need to buy detatched houses and start having house shows.

[FatHand]

i usually have a jam in my flat couple of times a week... you can come and watch for 1 and it's bring your own booze

[The Milner]

its a damm shame the council put a stop to the shows teabags and them were doing at shore porters, they were an ace idea. we played a show once in the old exile studio with stanley it was so much fun, deadloss did a live cd in there i think as well.

There used to be a heap of small places that did gigs come to think of it, Imagine, Exodus, Drakes, Shore Porters (briefly) East Neuk, all great wee venues. We did one at the Lok Up with weapon. we shall be blessed and at long last and it was fucking ace. Functions were always good fun with stayover/point, birthday partys and such like, the one we did out at the golf course on the way to balmadie with gilman street was banter, with the bar man complaining it was too loud when we were just tuning the kit, i laughed when he said it better not be that loud when the full band was playing, he had never heard gilman street before......

[Chris]

The catchment area of Aberdeen is 200K as opposed to 2M in the central belt.

The population of Aberdeen is 200K, the catchment area is probably the same again. More if it's a big enough gig.

[davewarden]

Tunnel 2 - 350 (?)

Hen told me a while back 360 for Tunnel 1, 150 for Tunnel 2 and 350 for Drummonds.

stop havering NOW!