punk/metal war

[Teabags]

I love you' date=' Dave.[/quote']

I love you too Jason.

[Guest scott cs.]

Personally don't listen to either particularly but at the end of the day any retard can play punk; there have been some really special metal bands.

there have also been some really shit metal bands, as well as really good punk bands ie The Clash, who mixed up alot of different sounds into their music.

if the Aberdeen Music scene is so stale and back-water, why don't you do something to improve it instead of moaning about it on a message board?

[Tav]

why don't you do something to improve it instead of moaning about it on a message board?

Careful they might say they are...

If they did get their fingers out and go about improving it then all the power to them.

[Guest scott cs.]

Careful they might say they are...

If they did get their fingers out and go about improving it then all the power to them.

indeed, they could be but i haven't heard it. this may be due to my own ignorance however.

[Widd]

I really dont like punk music, its not as well written as other music. Mayb if it had more thought put into it then i might like it.

[bryn]

there have also been some really shit metal bands' date=' as well as really good punk bands ie The Clash, who mixed up alot of different sounds into their music.

if the Aberdeen Music scene is so stale and back-water, why don't you do something to improve it instead of moaning about it on a message board?[/quote']

The Clash don't really sum up punk though, for a start, they are listenable (much against the stereotype). When I hear them I don't think noisy dischord I think 'song', more rock n roll influence.

Yes there are many many SHIT metal bands, but come on, theres some really talented guys on the metal scene.

'why dont you do something to improve it...'

www.soundclick.com/apraxia

make up your own mind, I think I'm trying / putting at least a small bit of thought into it.

[Guest Stripey]

There can be soul in electronic music' date=' but it derives from the original musicians who created the samples that are ripped off by the jigsaw puzzle boys.[/quote']

What you've just said demonstrates pure ignorance. It's not about stringing together samples or loops atall.

I use SYNTHS for all my pads, bass, leads, and some incidental sound effects, which I program myself (factory presets go in the bin) and play on my midi master keyboard, I use drum synths a lot. When I use breakbeats, these are made from samples mostly from funk records, which I cut into INDIVIDUAL DRUM HITS, then re-arrange them myself into my own drum patterns. I'm sampling the KIT, not the DRUMMERS PLAYING. I then run these through various filters, volume envelopes, and a parametric EQ to change the sound until it's exactly how I want it. In some cases, I take samples of sounds from movies, and severely mash them up into a completely new and unrecognisable sound, using filters, pitch changes, stereo delay, reverb, phaser/flanger and EQ. I NEVER use straight samples of a musician playing and I never use loops. I mixdown and master for mp3/CD myself, and I use top of the range professional tools for everything I do. I have been doing this for years and am not some kid with a copy of dance e-jay.

You obviously know f-all about electronic music production, I'd like to see you come round here and sit infront of cubase and write a song, and I mean all the drums, bass, leads, pads and mix it down, you'd see just how complicated it actually is.

[Guest Stripey]

I really dont like punk music' date=' its not as well written as other music. Mayb if it had more thought put into it then i might like it.[/quote']

There was some old famous punk guy being interviewed on the radio the other day, can't remember his name. He said Punk was about anyone being able to pick up an instrument and form a band even if they can't play well, and he said "look what an apalling legacy this has resulted in!". Which I thought was quite amusing.

[Alan Cynic]

OK.....I for one await the new Stripey/Ibid band with a lck of patience. Will it be called Stripid or Ipey?

You guys should seriously get together and record something....even if it's through the post. And I'm genuinely hoping it happens!

__________________________________________________________________________________

Kitchen Cynics.........................................mix'n'matchmaking................................................

[Guest Sundaram]

It's not about stringing together samples or loops atall

You obviously know f-all about electronic music production' date=' I'd like to see you come round here and sit infront of cubase and write a song, and I mean all the drums, bass, leads, pads and mix it down, you'd see just how complicated it actually is.[/quote']

Point 1: Aye, Stripeys right you know!

Point 2: I'd like to see you come round here and sing, play guitar, sitar, flute and sax and write a song, you'd see just how complicated it actually is.

PS: Just having a bit of fun my friend!

[Guest Stripey]

Point 1: Aye' date=' Stripeys right you know!

Point 2: I'd like to see you come round here and sing, play guitar, sitar, flute and sax and write a song, you'd see just how complicated it actually is.

PS: Just having a bit of fun my friend![/quote']

It's a valid point you've got there It just gets my hackles up when people discount electronic production as being talentless juggling of samples.

[Guest Sundaram]

It's a valid point you've got there It just gets my hackles up when people discount electronic production as being talentless juggling of samples.

Well as you pointed out, thats just ignorance.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

I'm bored' date=' and decide that i shall start a war between punk and metal. I think punk sucks ass, eventhough punk is more upbeat and happy i still think it sucks my balls, it takes a lot less talent to write a punk song with stupid lyrics and a power chordal riff than a metal song with shredding solos Discuss[/quote']

Firstly you'll find that there exists extremely close links between both the metal and punk communities.

Thrash metal outfits such as Metalica owe a great debt to early punk/hardcore outfits such as Discharge.

80s Britcore outfits Napalm Death, ENT etc, then a part of the punk community, were quickly embraced by the metal community. Few metal folks recognize punk's important influence.

Punk upbeat and happy? I suggest you check out folks such as The Dagda, Antischism, Extinction Of Mankind, Scatha, Misery, Doom, Kill The Man who Questions, Whorehouse Of Representatives, React...

And stupid lyrics? You'll find that a lotta punk outfits address issues of serious political concern.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

haha' date=' wotever you say, . I don't like the two, punk sucks balls. i dont really care wot cunts like you think and when you look at ska punk, it is happy, u dumbfuck, upbeat, they dont talk about death etc like bands like slayer does.[/quote']

Then I guess you never checked out ska punk outfits such Citizen Fish or antimaniax - bands whose message is extremely political.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

There was some old famous punk guy being interviewed on the radio the other day' date=' can't remember his name. He said Punk was about anyone being able to pick up an instrument and form a band even if they can't play well, and he said "look what an apalling legacy this has resulted in!". Which I thought was quite amusing.[/quote']

Anyone can do it? Well, this was a strong reaction to the worship of rock heroes - the breaking down of barriers between band and audience.

[metallica_jaco]

ok, well id like to say i didnt post this thread for people to hate me, lol. I just thought it wud be an interesting thing to start, i like starting debates, its always fun, i shall look into those bands you mentioned and see whats happenin there

[Mouse]

If Aberdeen is a cultural backwater (and I don't think it is) it's because close minded idiots like stripey' date=' with their insular ideas and total inability to actually listen to music and appreciate it, closet thenselves in their bedrooms with a computer and a load of ripped off software and wank themselves into believing they're at the cutting edge of music.

These delusional computer geeks with not even a rudimentary knowledge of music, but immersed in programming language, simply disregard 500 years of music and offer instead a series of beeps and squeeks, without a real instrument in sight and claim "look! This is the future! Put away your guitars and basses!!! Technology has made them irrelevant!"

While technology has advanced hugely in recent years, it is not a replacement for musical skill and emotion. My own studio is a mixture of digital and analogue as no digital gear can yet replace my lovely old valve pre amps. Technology is there to enhance and expand musical frontiers not replace them with soul less soundscapes created with absolutely no skill whatsoever. And don't tell me there's loads of skill involved stripey, the other day my 13 year old daughter created from scratch, using my "technology" a pop backing track for her own song in around 20 minutes by typing chords into a sequencer, telling it to generate intros and solos and an ending, then adding synth sounds. It sounds perfectly fine, if a little bubble gum, but hey, she's only 13 and can already match the bedroom techno geeks.

Don't worry though, maturity will bring the ability to actually listen and absorb.[/quote']Very nicely put

[Guest Stripey]

If Aberdeen is a cultural backwater (and I don't think it is) it's because close minded idiots like stripey' date=' with their insular ideas and total inability to actually listen to music and appreciate it, closet thenselves in their bedrooms with a computer and a load of ripped off software and wank themselves into believing they're at the cutting edge of music.

These delusional computer geeks with not even a rudimentary knowledge of music, but immersed in programming language, simply disregard 500 years of music and offer instead a series of beeps and squeeks, without a real instrument in sight and claim "look! This is the future! Put away your guitars and basses!!! Technology has made them irrelevant!"

While technology has advanced hugely in recent years, it is not a replacement for musical skill and emotion. My own studio is a mixture of digital and analogue as no digital gear can yet replace my lovely old valve pre amps. Technology is there to enhance and expand musical frontiers not replace them with soul less soundscapes created with absolutely no skill whatsoever. And don't tell me there's loads of skill involved stripey, the other day my 13 year old daughter created from scratch, using my "technology" a pop backing track for her own song in around 20 minutes by typing chords into a sequencer, telling it to generate intros and solos and an ending, then adding synth sounds. It sounds perfectly fine, if a little bubble gum, but hey, she's only 13 and can already match the bedroom techno geeks.

Don't worry though, maturity will bring the ability to actually listen and absorb.[/quote']

Ah ok I remember who you are now. You are the guy who wrote that "fluffy things" song and plays covers in pubs. I have already replied to you on the last page, but I have just read this little rant you posted and realised who you are.

Basically you can fuck off. You are a total prick. How dare you compare what I do to the skills of a 13 year old girl. If your daughter can write a production quality pop tune in 20 minutes, then why aren't you and her knocking out hits left right and centre? You are full of shit.

Go and listen to my recent material, for example: http://www.neuscan.com/stripey--offworlder-128k.mp3.

It is people like you who hold back the scene and help Aberdeen to continue to be a cultural backwater, with your holier than thou attitudes and ignorance of modern music and how it is produced.

[New Found Power]

Go and listen to my recent material' date=' for example: [url']http://www.neuscan.com/stripey--offworlder-128k.mp3.

Having just downloaded that song, I can now view you as the most hypocritical man ever, this side of Adolf "Only blondes are good enough" Hitler.

The generic "tEcHnO" drumbeat that starts around 1:30 is just one of the things that I've heard oh-so-many times before on the Radio, usually reserved for the middle of the night on a Saturday. Not a SIMILAR beat, THE EXACT SAME ONE.

Fair enough, lots of rock/metal/punk songs can sound quite similar, but countless songs with exactly the same riff in them? Hardly.

[Guest Stripey]

Having just downloaded that song' date=' I can now view you as the most hypocritical man ever, this side of Adolf "Only blondes are good enough" Hitler.

The generic "tEcHnO" drumbeat that starts around 1:30 is just one of the things that I've heard oh-so-many times before on the Radio, usually reserved for the middle of the night on a Saturday. Not a [i']SIMILAR beat, THE EXACT SAME ONE.

Fair enough, lots of rock/metal/punk songs can sound quite similar, but countless songs with exactly the same riff in them? Hardly.

What you are referring to is the break from "The Winstons - Amen brother" and the reason you hear it in a lot of tunes, is because it is a highly unique and distinctive recording of a drum kit which has a lot of appeal and sounds particularly heavy.

Here is the original sample : http://totally.kicks-ass.net/the_winstons--amen_brother.mp3 everytime you hear these drum sounds, it is derived from this record. Nobody uses it straight, they cut it into indivudal drum hits and rearrange it into their own patterns.

When you listen to this sample, and then listen to my track, you will realise just how much manipulation goes into it.

[Frosty Jack]

What you are referring to is the break from "The Winstons - Amen brother" and the reason you hear it in a lot of tunes' date=' is because it is a highly unique and distinctive recording of a drum kit which has a lot of appeal and sounds particularly heavy.

Here is the original sample : [url']http://totally.kicks-ass.net/the_winstons--amen_brother.mp3 everytime you hear these drum sounds, it is derived from this record. Nobody uses it straight, they cut it into indivudal drum hits and rearrange it into their own patterns.

When you listen to this sample, and then listen to my track, you will realise just how much manipulation goes into it.

The 'Amen break' is a total classic, along with the 'funky drummer' and a few others. But I love hearing them used, and developed, in different ways, I don't think there's a problem with that. You could say there are issues with copyright, and that these beats are being 'stolen', but the question is, should G.C. Coleman, Clyde Stubblefield or whoever be eternally rewarded for one drum pattern they came up with years ago? All music is recycled sound. It's an interesting point, whether the true merit of these breaks is in the sound created, or in the way the pattern is played. Why is it always these performances that are used? If it is the rhythmic structure of the break, then why not just create the same pattern on a drum machine? Or if it is the drum sound that matters, which would appear to be the case as it is usually 'cut up' to some extent at least, then maybe the sound engineer should be getting the credit...

[Guest Stripey]

The 'Amen break' is a total classic' date=' along with the 'funky drummer' and a few others. But I love hearing them used, and developed, in different ways, I don't think there's a problem with that. You could say there are issues with copyright, and that these beats are being 'stolen', but the question is, should G.C. Coleman, Clyde Stubblefield or whoever be eternally rewarded for one drum pattern they came up with years ago? [i']All music is recycled sound. It's an interesting point, whether the true merit of these breaks is in the sound created, or in the way the pattern is played. Why is it always these performances that are used? If it is the rhythmic structure of the break, then why not just create the same pattern on a drum machine? Or if it is the drum sound that matters, which would appear to be the case as it is usually 'cut up' to some extent at least, then maybe the sound engineer should be getting the credit...

Absolutely, its the engineers that deserve the credit because people are sampling it for the actual sound of each hit, and the reason breaks such as "amen brother" and "funky drummer" and "lyn collins - think" etc are so widely used is because they have been recorded in such a distinctive way. Nobody really uses the original rhythmic structure, its all about the sound.

There is a copyright issue, but I do know that James brown ("funky drummer" "say it loud" cold sweat" etc) has said that he doesn't care and thinks its healthy. When you are cutting up breaks and using individual hits, can you really copyright the way in which the kit was mic'ed up and recorded, since the original arrangement itself isn't used?

[kirkt]

haha' date=' wotever you say, . I don't like the two, punk sucks balls. i dont really care wot cunts like you think and when you look at ska punk, it is happy, u dumbfuck, upbeat, they dont talk about death etc like bands like slayer does.[/quote']

ska punk is just a sub-genre your having to resort to because you know you've made a twat of yourself. it is not a representative of punk in general...nor is it always happy, just look at ghost town by the specials, surely proof enough but if you need more, check out:

capdown, suicide machine, anti-maniax, link 80, big D and the Kids Table, Bosseye, Operation Ivy, Da Skywalkers, Five Knuckle, APB

[kirkt]

Then I guess you never checked out ska punk outfits such Citizen Fish or antimaniax - bands whose message is extremely political.

aha, touche

[Guest Ibid]

Wrong again stripey. I am not the guy who wrote whatever you're on about. I do not play in a covers band. I am a session player and sound engineer. A real one. One who studied the art as an apprentice and who has a real studio and does real work as in making records.

And wrong again stripey. I have used cubase, years ago. I now use logic and various other pro level sequencer and synth packages. In fact I have taught the use of such packages.

So how dare a bedroom boy like you, playing at being a record producer, talk to me like that. And how dare you say you never sample and then go on to admit that you do. You are committing theft, boy and perhaps I should report you to MCPS!!!

No, there will be stripey/ibid record as I only work with people who know what they're doing.

ps. My daughter learned to sequence with cubase in about 2 hours.