Vote B.N.P.

[GraemeC]

These figures being thrown about the press that 1 in 4 voters could vote BNP in the next election, is it scare tactics or could there be a grain of truth in it.....

I think its nonsense myself.

Whats your thoughts?

[framheim]

depends who they asked i guess. you gotta take all statistics with a pinch of salt.

[Me and Parvati]

I would be very disturbed indeed if 25% of the electorate turned out to be as stupid as politicians think we are.

[Guest Phantomsmasher]

It's a horrible thing to even imagine, one in four is a fair amount of voters. The increase of publicity they are getting in the news is bad enough, let alone this.

That said, my gut instinct is that this is major political party scare tactics rather than a genuine claim. I cannot force myself to believe that, that many Britons would convert from say Labour, or even Conservative to that kind of extremism ... but then time will tell I guess.

[Skacel]

Fuck i hope not!!

watched a program called 'nazi hate rock' a while back and there was video footage of 'old' members of the BNP doing the nazi salutes and stuff like that. just completely bang out of order.

[the_collector]

Shocking figures indeed, but not that much of a stretch of the imagination to see why people are becoming disillusioned with conventional politics. Quite simply it seems there's a feeling of being let down, promises being broken and liberties being taken.

BNP policies include lowering taxes, asylum clampdown and zero tolerance for anti-social behaviour...........................now, stop me if you think that you've heard all this already!

Personally, I'd rather take my chances with any of the other main political parties. Even thinking of voting BNP as a protest vote would be playing with fire!

[ben_1903]

BNP policies include lowering taxes' date=' asylum clampdown and zero tolerance for anti-social behaviour...........................now, stop me if you think that you've heard all this already!

[/quote']

But...the bnp ARE the type for anti-social behaviour. They are a bunch of racist thugs with a few men in suits who pretend to be model citizens interested in conservative family values.

[Me and Parvati]

Even thinking of voting BNP as a protest vote would be playing with fire!

Aye, it's all very well sending boy bands and rappers to rogue barley in dufftown, but what if they decide that they don't like baldy old gits with a taste for reggae, country music and Captain Beefheart? And I'm not really joking.

[Guest Neubeatz]

Our elected politicians appear to make the mistake of appeasing big business, corporate entity, and the market, the electorate are secondary in their considerations, I think this causes the public dissillusionment with the normal political process, giving extreme values a greater chance.

[the_collector]

But...the bnp ARE the type for anti-social behaviour. They are a bunch of racist thugs with a few men in suits who pretend to be model citizens interested in conservative family values.

Yeah, I thought that was a little incongruous myself.

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

They may very well get a few council seats, but it won't last. Derek Beackon won a seat on the Isle of Dogs council in 1993 and was soon kicked out as the other parties refused to sit on a council with a Nazi in it. And, make no mistake, forget all these "far-right" and "extremist" labels, these people are fucking Nazis.

There is an alternative in England, a party called Respect.

[Alvin Starclusk]

There is an alternative in England' date=' a party called Respect.[/quote']

Yes. Unfortunately it's an alternative party led by a self-absorbed bawbag, who has a worrying (and deeply unproffessional) tendency to find himself "incarcerated" in a mocked up house when he should be debating in parliament. Or doing his job as it's known. Doesn't reflect very well on his party.

Also, I doubt very much people that are considering voting BNP for the reasons listed above are going to find much to satisfy them in a Respect manifesto.

Have to say that, living down in the South East of England, the BNP are worryingly the most visibly campaigning party.

[lepeep]

it is frightening, not the BNP, but the pople who think that they are the "only credible option"...

what is this country coming to, when all that matters is your castle, and colour of skin?

I just wish evolution was a tad faster, as they'd all be inbred and sterile within a generation or 3 in my world.

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

Yes. Unfortunately it's an alternative party led by a self-absorbed bawbag' date=' who has a worrying (and deeply unproffessional) tendency to find himself "incarcerated" in a mocked up house when he should be debating in parliament. Or doing his job as it's known. Doesn't reflect very well on his party.[/quote']

As opposed to Neo-Labour, a mainstream party led by a self-absorbed bawbag who has a worrying (and deeply illegal) tendency to find himself sanctioning unjustified murder in an already fucked-up country when he should be sorting out the country he's in charge of running. Or doing his job as it's known. Doesn't reflect very well on his party.

So, who's the guiltier of the two? George Galloway went on a TV show, whoopty-doo.

[Alvin Starclusk]

As opposed to Neo-Labour' date=' a mainstream party led by a self-absorbed bawbag who has a worrying (and deeply illegal) tendency to find himself sanctioning unjustified murder in an already fucked-up country when he should be sorting out the country he's in charge of running. Or doing his job as it's known. Doesn't reflect very well on his party.

So, who's the guiltier of the two? George Galloway went on a TV show, whoopty-doo.[/quote']

As someone who hasn't voted Labour since 1997 (and would be hard pushed to ever again), I'm not going to take any offence at that whatsoever. I personally agree with most of your argument, just not the conclussion you come to.

Regardless, it's very difficult to represent your constituents when you're living in a news vacuum with (supposedly) no contact with the outer world, potentially for several weeks. Rather makes a mockery of a party with supposedly serious manifestos and ambitions, the people that have voted for - and rightly expect representation from - them and the whole democratic system does it not?

[GraemeC]

As opposed to Neo-Labour' date=' a mainstream party led by a self-absorbed bawbag who has a worrying (and deeply illegal) tendency to find himself sanctioning unjustified murder in an already fucked-up country when he should be sorting out the country he's in charge of running. Or doing his job as it's known. Doesn't reflect very well on his party.

So, who's the guiltier of the two? George Galloway went on a TV show, whoopty-doo.[/quote']

I'm quite pleased he appeared on Big Brother, I had a bit of respect for the guy until he showed his true colours and lack of understanding of the needs and desires of the general public..... I now think he's a complete knob.

[Hog]

I was driving to Aberdeen listening to a Radio show regarding this 25% BNP vote nonsense.

Firstly (and very very importantly) A poll was conducted on what party voters would vote for outwith the usuals i.e. Tories, Labour, Lib Dems etc.

In London 24% said BNP but around the rest of the uk it was lower.

[Hog]

bawbag who has a worrying (and deeply illegal) tendency to find himself sanctioning unjustified murder in an already fucked-up country

.

Oh but its justified, they are helping Iraq in becoming a peaceful and democratic society. Although, Im still waiting to see that.

Yes Saddam was evil, dont get me wrong but the average life expectancy for an Iraq' citizen is lower now compared to before the war.

[eat your parents]

Our elected politicians appear to make the mistake of appeasing big business' date=' corporate entity, and the market, the electorate are secondary in their considerations, I think this causes the public dissillusionment with the normal political process, giving extreme values a greater chance.[/quote']

The electorate are always secondary because we live in a democracy where instead of the people demanding what they want, a party sells its ideas to the public, jesus, Lippmann was going on about this back in the 1920s. There is no shock there.

What if I said I was a supporter of the BNP. I would be a prime example of...

a) The political parties in this country being all too similar

b) Political communications playing too large a role in politics (search google for "Blair" and "Changemaker". That speech is rhetoric in action and a large proportion of people don't even realise it.

c) Media coverage of asylum seekers etc.

I'd like to know exactly which news papers this story was featured in. If they were tabloids then Graeme, you should be ashamed of yourself leading these kids . Tabloids = popular culture, extremist, cartoon stories = sales.

I'd like to also make another point about the number of posters who automatically believed this thread without checking facts themselves. These are, or will be voters. What is truth or logos to you people?!

Fucking sheep.

[Hog]

[Cloud]

Would it really be a bad thing if the BNP managed to achieve 25% of the vote in the council elections next year in England? Considering those elections are on a FPTP basis, any fourth party achieving that should be congratulated - regardless of who or what they are. I'd guess that if they achieved such a thing, a lot of the unsavoury policies would be dropped in order to get their way into coalitions throughout the country.

The problem with the major parties (and the media) is that they spend way too much time scaremongering about the BNP rather than focusing on what they should be doing - beating them into the ground at the ballot box. I don't think a lot of people realise that the Anti-fascist movements are just bringing attention to the BNP - heck, free publicity is good, right?

And yes, I do believe that a lot of people are guilty of hysteria regarding the BNP. Ignoring the people who are politically as far away from them as possible, a lot of other people seem to believe the nonsense spouted by various people about the BNP. It has to be said that I'd join in with the left wingers if it came to stopping the BNP up here - but that's simply on the grounds that a "British" party is unwanted here.

Personally, I'd love for someone to tell me what the difference is between Ian Paisley and Nick Griffin. What's the difference, really?

[GraemeC]

The electorate are always secondary because we live in a democracy where instead of the people demanding what they want' date=' a party sells its ideas to the public, jesus, Lippmann was going on about this back in the 1920s. There is no shock there.

What if I said I was a supporter of the BNP. I would be a prime example of...

a) The political parties in this country being all too similar

b) Political communications playing too large a role in politics (search google for "Blair" and "Changemaker". That speech is rhetoric in action and a large proportion of people don't even realise it.

c) Media coverage of asylum seekers etc.

I'd like to know exactly which news papers this story was featured in. If they were tabloids then Graeme, you should be ashamed of yourself leading these kids . Tabloids = popular culture, extremist, cartoon stories = sales.

I'd like to also make another point about the number of posters who automatically believed this thread without checking facts themselves. These are, or will be voters. What is truth or logos to you people?!

Fucking sheep.[/quote']

How dare you suggest I would ever read any of the tabloid press (I do of course look at the pictures on occasion) It was on BBC news actually......and anyway what is there to "believe" the whole point of the thread was to air my opinion that this was in fact a lie!!

[framheim]

Would it really be a bad thing if the BNP managed to achieve 25% of the vote in the council elections next year in England? Considering those elections are on a FPTP basis' date=' any fourth party achieving that should be congratulated - regardless of who or what they are. I'd guess that if they achieved such a thing, a lot of the unsavoury policies would be dropped in order to get their way into coalitions throughout the country.

[/quote']

you guess wrong.

they'd use it as validation that they've been right the whole time and the whole of the mid to north of england would probably go up in flames as well. i'd imagine if they did drop any extreme policies it would be a temporary measure to distract the gullible folks like yourself. once a fascist always a fascist. and one thing we definitely do not want is fascists getting into coalitions. have you ever read any history books?

[Cloud]

you guess wrong.

they'd use it as validation that they've been right the whole time and the whole of the mid to north of england would probably go up in flames as well.

Would they' date=' though? Griffin isn't stupid, he's guided the party (until the recent politically motivated charges, at least) to mainstream recognition - do you really think, if confronted with the possibility of getting the party to be the 4th English party, he wouldn't drop some of the more dodgy aspects to become a mainstream party to the right of the Conservatives? There's a definite gap in the market (so to speak) for a right wing 4th party, to provide a counter to the Lib Dems - so who's to say the BNP won't end up filling that gap?

i'd imagine if they did drop any extreme policies it would be a temporary measure to distract the gullible folks like yourself.

That sounds like tabloid scare mongering. People are capable of change you know, regardless of what their political beliefs are at the moment. How do we know what the BNP will do? We can look at the evidence and see that parties will often drop some of their demands to share power - Lib Dems in Scotland (and Wales for a time?) for instance?

once a fascist always a fascist.

Is that not generalising a bit? Plenty of ex communists are now in power in Eastern Europe - if they can liberalise, why can't the more intelligent BNP members? Obviously it'll ring true for the more braindead members of the party - but isn't that exactly the same as Labour voting types in the Welsh valleys and so on? Same goes for the SSP - some members of them might have been members of Militant Tendancy back in the day, but look at them now? They're a genuine option in politics.

and one thing we definitely do not want is fascists getting into coalitions. have you ever read any history books?

Of course. But the same could be said about left wingers. Say the day comes that the SNP, SSP and Greens have the chance to form a rainbow coalition for independence. Do you not think that for the purposes of the coalition, the junior partners (which would be the SSP and Greens) wouldn't drop some of the more extreme parts of their manifesto? It's the same principle at the end of the day.

If fascists get into coalitions through the ballot box and through legal means, then as a proponent of democracy, how can I complain? Their policies are extreme, but if voters want that, why shouldn't they get the opportunity to govern?

As for history - how can you really compare the BNP getting power to what happened with the Weimar Republic? The Weimar Republic was ridiculously weak, with routine abuse of the constitution just to get legislation passed. There's a slight worry on my part that Blair's utter disregard for democracy could provide a future path into power for extremists, but it's unlikely as long as the FPTP system dominates English politics.

Edit : no doubt someone will call me a fascist sympathiser before long for daring to suggest that it's democratic to allow the BNP to spout their rubbish. If it's illegal, let them be prosecuted - but let's not go about banning the right to free association and all the rest of it. If we do that, then it's one step closer to a socialist workers (eww...) paradise, dominated by, that's right, people that don't like democracy.

editedit : this thread has made me wonder if it's worth forming a cross party group to campaign for democracy...

[Guest Neubeatz]

The electorate are always secondary because we live in a democracy where instead of the people demanding what they want, a party sells its ideas to the public,

Democracy my arse.

No, the parties sell their ideas to big business, Big business tells the papers what to write, Big business tells you what to watch on telly, then you vote,(or not) baa baa...

Big business, Big jobby,