Avian Flu is here

[soundian]

At the moment it can only be transmitted in extreme cases when someone has prolonged exposure to infected birds.

So don't go to (insert name of your most hated nightclub)!!

[Guest bluesxman]

yea wasn't it bird farmers who died? although i guess everyone in aberdeen has prolonged exposure to seagulls so perhaps we are all doomed.

meh' date=' there's not much we can do about it is there? just gotta sit back and see what happens. the government will fix everything right? RIGHT?[/quote']

A seagull cull!! Only way forward.....at last a good excuse.

[Uncle Mog]

I've heard you've got more chance of winning the lottery than catching bird flu

[GraemeC]

That was one of the best statistics I have ever heard.......

being hit by lightning 12000000/1

winning the jackpot of the UK lottery 14000000/1

[Wishbone G]

A seagull cull!! Only way forward.....at last a good excuse.

That rhymes so beautifully, it hurts:up:

[Alkaline]

Its only really in parts of the world where healthcare is very poor that you would have to worry about actually dying.

[threeornothing]

Like the UK

[spellchecker]

www.LOL.com

[Alkaline]

Like the UK

That's bullshit. Compared to some countries we have an amazing healthcare system. For starters we don't actually physically have to fork out s to be seen by a doctor. Fair enough our healthcare system is by no means perfect but when you compare figures of how many people die in the uk per year due to treatable diseases with countries in eastern/central europe and africa its considerabley less. Stop being so anti 'the man' for two seconds and think before you type eh?

[spellchecker]

well to be fair, we do pay for our healthcare, through the nose, in fact - we just happen to have a more practicable system of free healthcare at the point of service, that means a basic level of healthcare is available to all from the richest to the very poorest.

some of the problems for example are the people in the middle who are suffering from non life-threatening conditions that have to wait months to receive treatment, which really reduces their quality of life.

take my granny, for example. before she died a couple of years back, she needed a hip replacement. she was told she would have to wait 18 months on the NHS for the operation. that would have been 18 months of walking with two walking sticks, of having to sleep in your living room downstairs because of not being able to climb the stairs unaided.

she decided to spend her savings on going private, which meant for the last year of her life, she still had some sort of independence. something that (in hindsight) the NHS wouldn't have been able to provide.

sadly most people don't have the luxury of going private.

a lot of my family (including me at one stage) do or have worked for the NHS. there's no doubting the dedication of the majority of staff - despite the continual uphill struggle they face from bad press, underfunding, below market salary rates, a merry-go-round of management changes. but the system, from a top down point of view, is broken. there's no escaping that fact.

[threeornothing]

www.LOL.com

5 points to that man!

[Alkaline]

well to be fair' date=' we do pay for our healthcare, through the nose, in fact - we just happen to have a more practicable system of free healthcare at the point of service, that means a basic level of healthcare is available to all from the richest to the very poorest.

some of the problems for example are the people in the middle who are suffering from non life-threatening conditions that have to wait months to receive treatment, which really reduces their quality of life.

take my granny, for example. before she died a couple of years back, she needed a hip replacement. she was told she would have to wait 18 months on the NHS for the operation. that would have been 18 months of walking with two walking sticks, of having to sleep in your living room downstairs because of not being able to climb the stairs unaided.

she decided to spend her savings on going private, which meant for the last year of her life, she still had some sort of independence. something that (in hindsight) the NHS wouldn't have been able to provide.

sadly most people don't have the luxury of going private.

a lot of my family (including me at one stage) do or have worked for the NHS. there's no doubting the dedication of the majority of staff - despite the continual uphill struggle they face from bad press, underfunding, below market salary rates, a merry-go-round of management changes. but the system, from a top down point of view, is broken. there's no escaping that fact.[/quote']

I don't disagree with a lot of that to be honest. As i said its far from perfect. And if you read my post you'd see that i only said we don't have to physically fork out for medical expenses when we actually go to the doctor, i'm well aware of the fact that the nhs is funded through tax and national insurance.

But compared to Romania and other countries like that, which don't actually have a healthcare service in place as such and you can only get any medical help if they can pay for it or find a WHO or Red Cross doctor, we have a substantially better chance of getting the help that we need. Unfortunatley our country is plagued with scaremongerers and hypocondriacs.

[spellchecker]

Unfortunatley our country is plagued with scaremongerers and hypocondriacs.

i'm sure that'd be of great comfort to the relatives of the 1200 people who died from resistant MRSA in 2004.

[Alkaline]

i'm sure that'd be of great comfort to the relatives of the 1200 people who died from resistant MRSA in 2004.

Errr, right ok. As opposed to the thousands who die on a monthly basis in less advantaged countries. There's always someone who can't be happy with what they've got, do me a favour and go and live in Belarus for a year and then complain about the nhs. As a side point my brother's a nurse as is my aunt so i'm aware of how the health service is run and thats from people working in different areas of the uk, i myself am also a fully qualified Biochemist and have worked with e.coli and mrsa and the such like so i have a slight inclanation to know what i'm on about....

[calum]

I've heard you've got more chance of winning the lottery than catching bird flu

8o *runs off to buy lottery tickets*

[...mole...]

[Hog]

Errr' date=' right ok. As opposed to the thousands who die on a monthly basis in less advantaged countries. There's always someone who can't be happy with what they've got, do me a favour and go and live in Belarus for a year and then complain about the nhs. As a side point my brother's a nurse as is my aunt so i'm aware of how the health service is run and thats from people working in different areas of the uk, i myself am also a fully qualified Biochemist and have worked with e.coli and mrsa and the such like so i have a slight inclanation to know what i'm on about....[/quote']

I do see where you are coming from Alkaline. Although surely MRSA is more preventable considering how rich the UK is?

[Alkaline]

I do see where you are coming from Alkaline. Although surely MRSA is more preventable considering how rich the UK is?

Undeniably, we could spend much more on healthcare and there are far fewer cases of mrsa now. Most diseases/ailments are easily preventable, cases like glandular fever for example. But unfortunately it still occurs every now and then.

There is far too much of a scaremonger attitude as far as the press/public are concerned with medical matters. BSE, MSRA, Bird Flu... how many people in the grand scheme of things have ACTUALLY been killed or been seriously ill as a result of said illnesses? Little or none, more people die in the uk of 'normal' flu each year than have died worldwide as a result of bird flu yet the press seem to think its necessary to hype up diseases and create such a circus around them. Fair enough it pays to be wary of certain diseases but there's no need to go overboard about it.

[Rachie]

Two things...

1/ why is everyone going on about Ayr? its been found in Fife....much closer

2/ You are aware that 100.....yes thats 100 people world wide...thats 100 people out of the entire population of the world have died of Bird flu' date=' I dont really think its too big a threat just yet...

Sorry just thought of a third thing, think I'll order my Christmas turkey now!!![/quote']

Aye, but out of the humans who have contracted the disease 54% have died. That's a HUGE mortality rate, you can't ignore that. It's highly pathogenic. Plus it's the body's own response to the virus that makes it so deadly. It's scary stuff.

Fact: if H5N1 mutates to become easily transmissable from human to human rather than just from direct contact with infected birds we'll be in big trouble. We'd be looking at a pandemic, and the world is not ready in terms of vaccination and anti viral stocks. That is why WHO are so worried about bird flu.

[spellchecker]

Undeniably' date=' we could spend much more on healthcare and there are far fewer cases of mrsa now. Most diseases/ailments are easily preventable, cases like glandular fever for example. But unfortunately it still occurs every now and then.[/quote']

Resistant MRSA, i.e. the strains that are not responding to antibiotic treatment, is not decreasing. from the govenment's national statistics page:

(see http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1067 for more)

There is far too much of a scaremonger attitude as far as the press/public are concerned with medical matters. BSE' date=' MSRA, Bird Flu... how many people in the grand scheme of things have ACTUALLY been killed or been seriously ill as a result of said illnesses? Little or none, more people die in the uk of 'normal' flu each year than have died worldwide as a result of bird flu yet the press seem to think its necessary to hype up diseases and create such a circus around them. Fair enough it pays to be wary of certain diseases but there's no need to go overboard about it.[/quote']

to be honest, i think the press have handled the thing about avian flu pretty well - don't know if you saw reporting scotland tonight, but they completely played down the risks posed, and even had hugh pennington answering questions for them.

however, the number of deaths from MRSA isn't negligible, especially, as is shown by the statistics, it is actually rising. and i accept that the risk to human life from avian flu is minimal, possibly even inconsequential - but this could only be the start. my point is, i'd rather people were asking questions, finding out more information about it and acting responsibly (i.e. knowing that it is still safe to eat poultry and eggs), than burying their heads in the sand pretending it doesn't exist.

[Alkaline]

Resistant MRSA' date=' i.e. the strains that are not responding to antibiotic treatment, is not decreasing. from the govenment's national statistics page:

[img']http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/1067.gif

(see http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1067 for more)

to be honest, i think the press have handled the thing about avian flu pretty well - don't know if you saw reporting scotland tonight, but they completely played down the risks posed, and even had hugh pennington answering questions for them.

however, the number of deaths from MRSA isn't negligible, especially, as is shown by the statistics, it is actually rising. and i accept that the risk to human life from avian flu is minimal, possibly even inconsequential - but this could only be the start. my point is, i'd rather people were asking questions, finding out more information about it and acting responsibly (i.e. knowing that it is still safe to eat poultry and eggs), than burying their heads in the sand pretending it doesn't exist.

I agree with the main points you're making totally, and i'm glad the press have gained some common sense. As for the mrsa thing, there will always be variants of diseases that are untreatable. the way their genetics work means that mutation in viruses is very common. And i in no way meant to come across as saying mrsa deaths were dismissable, but its not a perfect world or system unfortunately.

[ZeromiserY]

well it takes about 5-6hours travelling by train and megabus.

so you'd have some warning :-)

but its closer to aberdeen than ayr is just now.

we'd probably get it at the same time :-(

i've never seen a bird on a mega bus, but then i've never seen many things on a mega bus that pass for human either.

mb81, megabus flu. its a killer.

fuckin' : bird flu, mad cow disease, global warming, tooth fairy. all made up.

fire cures them all. (specially the tooth fairy)

[spellchecker]

I agree with the main points you're making totally' date=' and i'm glad the press have gained some common sense. As for the mrsa thing, there were always be variants of diseases that are untreatable. the way their genetics work means that mutation in viruses is very common. And i in no way meant to come across as saying mrsa deaths were dismissable, but its not a perfect world or system unfortunately.[/quote']

agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

[GraemeC]

Aye' date=' but out of the humans who have contracted the disease 54% have died. That's a HUGE mortality rate, you can't ignore that. It's highly pathogenic. Plus it's the body's own response to the virus that makes it so deadly. It's scary stuff.

Fact: if H5N1 mutates to become easily transmissable from human to human rather than just from direct contact with infected birds we'll be in big trouble. We'd be looking at a pandemic, and the world is not ready in terms of vaccination and anti viral stocks. That is why WHO are so worried about bird flu.[/color']

Yes, 100 people have died, mostly in asian countries and in remote/poor areas where the diagnosis and treatment is 5th rate.

"Fact: if H5N1 mutates to become easily transmissable from human to human rather than just from direct contact with infected birds we'll be in big trouble"

How do you know? how does anyone know? the point is how can something be "Fact" when it hasnt happened yet and might never?

[spellchecker]

Yes' date=' 100 people have died, mostly in asian countries and in remote/poor areas where the diagnosis and treatment is 5th rate.

"Fact: if H5N1 mutates to become easily transmissable from human to human rather than just from direct contact with infected birds we'll be in big trouble"

How do you know? how does anyone know? the point is how can something be "Fact" when it hasnt happened yet and might never?[/quote']

it has happened - they base it on the empirical evidence from the 1918, 1958 and 1967-68 pandemics, all of which developed from or can be traced back to avian flu, the 1918 influenza estimated to have killed more people than world war 1 itself.

like has been said, the threat isn't immediate, it's more if the flu strain mutates into a more infectious form, as happened in the 1918 influenza, that things will go titsup.com. at least that's what the world wide interweb told me.