feeble! Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 well it's all about compromise isn't it? you can't have it all one way, even if it is a "slight annoyance". I'm sure it's a "slight annoyance" for smokers to go outside, but they have to accept that. So just accept that you have to walk past people who are smoking to get in and out of venues now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodyRATM Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 well it's all about compromise isn't it? you can't have it all one way' date=' even if it is a "slight annoyance". I'm sure it's a "slight annoyance" for smokers to go outside, but they have to accept that. So just accept that you have to walk past people who are smoking to get in and out of venues now.[/quote']i did or have rather. i said that at the end of my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon Of The Fall Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 like it can be a gauntlet getting past them. theres soooo many smokers outside places now. but when theres as much as there is its kinda hard to keep a slight distance away from them' date=' or even say excuse me, so end up barging past them getting harrased for not saying it. even tho generally i have they just dont listen but thats not my beef.[/quote']Thats a bit of a sweeping generalization no? Them? What does that mean exactly? Smokers don't all actually act the same. There are plenty of impolite non smokers as well but im not going to make a point of saying that all non smokers get in my way when im trying to enjoy a fag...manners are an individual thing, its not linked with nicotine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted May 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Honestly G' date=' you now have a smoke free pub, and you still moan about a few seconds of very minor inconvenience. [/quote']this is truly unbeleivable, you would think from peoples reactions that I had instigated the smoking ban, forced it through and enforce it single handed.....I make a little tounge in cheek comment and youd think I was the fucking devil himself.Dont know if anyone has noticed but the Tunnels are situated in a .....tunnel....!!! it has a roof and walls and therefore when there is no wind the smoke lingers, as a lifelong non smoker I really dont like the smell of smoke.....sorry but thats all..... I at no time mentioned any other pub, or getting cancer etc etc, I didnt even expect anyone to take my comment seriously....so for fuck sake chill out.The comment was made just to get a rise out of the hard done by smokers....and boy was that a success....but lets just forget it now eh....you all just feel free to ingest as much life threatening chemicals outside pubs as your little hearts desire...you have my blessing.....Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 calm down...calm down....Whats wrong ... nicotine levels low are they?I don't know how high your comprehension of Nicotine addiction is!I love having a cigarette and I think it's annoying that I can't have one in the pub, but I don't start climbing the walls or start shouting at people if I don't have one. It's an addiction, but it's not an all consuming spiral of desperation for nicotine, it's just irritating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted May 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I don't know how high your comprehension of Nicotine addiction is!I love having a cigarette and I think it's annoying that I can't have one in the pub' date=' but I don't start climbing the walls or start shouting at people if I don't have one. It's an addiction, but it's not an all consuming spiral of desperation for nicotine, it's just irritating![/quote']But obviously you can only speak for yourself, or are you suggesting all smokers are the same.....and before you answer bare in mind I have been outside major airports and watched people about to fly and those who have just flown get their fix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelie Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 .you all just feel free to ingest as much life threatening chemicals outside pubs as your little hearts desire...you have my blessing....!and alcohol is not a life threating chemical do you know you can get cancer liver kidney and other diseases from drinking think on that before you start about smokers outside maybe they should ban alcohol but then again there would be a riot from all the drinkers and that would be another form of tax to the goverment gone and lots of un employment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 But obviously you can only speak for yourself' date=' or are you suggesting all smokers are the same.....and before you answer bare in mind I have been outside major airports and watched people about to fly and those who have just flown get their fix...[/quote']what do airports have to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neil ex Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 you all just feel free to ingest as much life threatening chemicals outside pubs as your little hearts desire...you have my blessing.....Amen!You should stop getting annoyed at people when you're out cause you'll always be bitter and never truly enjoy yourself. You're intitled to your overweight and unhealthy lifestyle aswell, G... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogofish Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Dont know if anyone has noticed but the Tunnels are situated in a .....tunnel....!!! it has a roof and walls and therefore when there is no wind the smoke lingers' date=' as a lifelong non smoker I[/quote']And it dosen't have a ventilation system more than capable of keeping it cool & smoke free? That would be a surprising oversight considering that the planners here have insisted on just such kit being installed in new licenced places for the last 20-odd years.Of course, FTM, there is no obligation to actually use it & IMO, far too many licencees here subscribed to the "hot, smoky & sweaty, sells more drink" school of thought & judging by the stink in some pubs where I know they have systems capable of handling it, they still do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogofish Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 and alcohol is not a life threating chemical do you know you can get cancer liver kidney and other diseases from drinking think on that Exactly! From the point of view taken by the folk who framed this leglislation' date=' even the worst case (unproven) scenario for harm from smoking [b']pales into complete & utter insignificance compared alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Banacek Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Exactly! From the point of view taken by the folk who framed this leglislation' date=' even the worst case (unproven) scenario for harm from smoking [b']pales into complete & utter insignificance compared alcohol.I think the difference is that me drinking ten pints of lager isn't going to get you pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogofish Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 No but what you do after drinking that 10 pints might have very serious consequences for me - It makes no difference what we do to ourselves but as drinkers, we are several orders of magnitude more likley to injure/damage someone else than any smoker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepeep Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Exactly! From the point of view taken by the folk who framed this leglislation' date=' even the worst case (unproven) scenario for harm from smoking [b']pales into complete & utter insignificance compared alcohol.this is a strange argument...when has anyone who bought a pint forced someone else to drink it?yeah, alcohol is bad for you, but it's only going to affect you, and no one else (unless you go pick a fight, or spew on someone elses doorstep!)the original point to "banning smoke in pubs" was that people (bar staff, most importantly) don't have to breathe in the smoke from other people...not whether smoking was worse for you than drinking.most (80+% of the smokers I've spoken to) think it's "fine", but I wait for their reaction in winter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogofish Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 this is a strange argument...when has anyone who bought a pint forced someone else to drink it?yeah' date=' alcohol is bad for you, but it's only going to affect you, and no one else (unless you go pick a fight, or spew on someone elses doorstep!)the original point to "banning smoke in pubs" was that people (bar staff, most importantly) don't have to breathe in the smoke from other people...[/quote']Is it? Even though the direct consumption of alcohol is not entirely relavent here, I can think of plenty of examples of occasions where the pressure to drink/drink to excess can be overly intense - both individually & socially. Remember, I had good reason to quit booze for a long time once & plenty of places/people treated me like an utter freak for doing so & more than a few places flatly refused to serve me or asked me to leave because I'd had the temerity to order a soft drink. Don't try & deny that even without consuming themselves, a huge number of people suffer from illness/injury/general harm, every year as a direct result of someone else's drinking. Yes, the legislation was framed from the point of secondary sufferers, not primary consumers & that takes me back to my original point.most (80+% of the smokers I've spoken to) think it's "fine", but I wait for their reaction in winter.I agree that most smokers were more than willing to accept greater restrictions & a solution that offered much greater choice for non-smokers but the political will was for something else entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Don't try & deny that even without consuming themselves' date=' a [b']huge number of people suffer from illness/injury/general harm, every year as a direct result of someone else's drinking. Yeah, but the difference is that people being harmed by someone else's alcohol intake are more directly affected by the person being a cunt (ie, picking a fight, driving while pissed, puking on your shoes, etc). You can be affected by smoke whether it's coming from the aforementioned cunt or from the old bloke in the corner minding his own business while having a fag.An arsehole is an arsehole, whether pissed or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 most (80+% of the smokers I've spoken to) think it's "fine"' date=' but I wait for their reaction in winter....[/quote']Probably "fine...but colder"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepeep Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 ... more than a few places flatly refused to serve me or asked me to leave because I'd had the temerity to order a soft drink. wow...I'd happily leave a pub if they were that fucking awful to a customer!the argument still isn't the same as smoking vs drinking, which mr French Disko points out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 more than a few places flatly refused to serve me or asked me to leave because I'd had the temerity to order a soft drink. i actually don't believe that for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogofish Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 i actually don't believe that for a second.Then you would be very wrong. Admittedly tho, this has not been a problem in the last few years so I'd accept that attitudes are beginning to change. It is however still not that unusual to get a look of surprise/suspicion or a "you driving?" or similar when I ask for a soft drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogofish Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 wow...I'd happily leave a pub if they were that fucking awful to a customer!Yes. I'd normally never darken their door again except under protest or unless the place changed hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogofish Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 Yeah' date=' but the difference is that people being harmed by someone else's alcohol intake are more directly affected by the person being a cunt (ie, picking a fight, driving while pissed, puking on your shoes, etc). An arsehole is an arsehole, whether pissed or not.[/quote']Agree about the arseholes but I don't think I've ever had to watch my back over a fag. Either way, that is usually the direct result of their drinking whilst the whole passive smoking arguement is at best contentious. I'm not stupid enough (or want to get into that particular argument) to claim that it does no harm but even the most pro-believer has to accept that they are having great difficulty quantifying the risk whilst studiously neglecting other contradictory factors like pollution, lifestyle/environment changes & other cancer/heart disease causing agents. Whilst the risk from alcohol is not only much greater than even the worst-case PS scenario but consistantly agreed to be so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Banacek Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 No but what you do after drinking that 10 pints might have very serious consequences for me - It makes no difference what we do to ourselves but as drinkers' date=' we are several orders of magnitude more likley to injure/damage someone else than [b']any smoker.Nonsense.Any individual has the capacity for violence, regardless of alcohol intake.It is impossible to contribute to passive smoking if you don't smoke.The two are simply not comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Nonsense.Any individual has the capacity for violence' date=' regardless of alcohol intake.It is impossible to contribute to passive smoking if you don't smoke.The two are simply not comparable.[/quote']Exactly. Alcohol does not directly make a person more violent - otherwise you'd be getting beaten up by your Granny after she had a couple of sherries. You could say that alcohol directly leads to spinster Aunts dancing more at Weddings or that having a pint after work directly leads you to falling asleep on the sofa watchin eastenders - both of these are as likely as someone having a pint and then starting a fight in union Street or pissing in a shop doorway. Alcohol helps drop inhibitions - if you're the sort of person with pent up anger then alcohol may be the catalyst that drives you to violence but it is certainly not the cause. However, blowing smoke in someone's face is more likely to cause them to develop lung cancer than if you didn't do it. If people are going to debate the merrits of a smoking ban (although, let's face it, the stable door has been opened & the horse has bolted as far as that's concerned) then by all means do so - I just wish a better argument than "alcohol is just as bad" was used. can anyone provide any positive aspects that smoking in enclosed public spaces provides for other people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Then you would be very wrong. Admittedly tho' date=' this has not been a problem in the last few years so I'd accept that attitudes are beginning to change. It is however still not that unusual to get a look of surprise/suspicion or a "you driving?" or similar when I ask for a soft drink.[/quote']well you're obviously drinking in the wrong pubs. i've never seen that kind of thing happen in a pub either when i've ordered a soft drink or when someone with me has ordered soft drinks. it's still money in the till so i don't see why they'd refuse it.the only hassle i've had was in kef a few years ago when i asked for a glass of water and they told me they weren't allowed to give out water, i argued with the guy cause i'm sure it's illegal to refuse to give out water but to no avail. he then charged me 2 for an irn bru in a short glass. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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