HeinzHines Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Celtic was never a club for CatholicsIt was....it was started by Saint Marys church in 1887 to help reduce poverty in the Catholic community. Then i dont think it was until the 50's or the 60's that they changed to a non catholic club....meaning they could dominate over rangers by signing prosetent (sp) players. I watched a nice documentary about it....dont know if my dates are right though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 It was....it was started by Saint Marys church in 1887 to help reduce poverty in the Catholic community. Then i dont think it was until the 50's or the 60's that they changed to a non catholic club....meaning they could dominate over rangers by signing prosetent (sp) players. I watched a nice documentary about it....dont know if my dates are right though...You're right, Celtic was founded as a reaction to Hibernian winning the Scottish Cup in 1887. They thought a Glasgow version of Hibs would be just the job. Celtic was founded, and they then proceeded to sign six players from said Hibs team. Some things never change.In the interests of balance, Rangers were away to Arbroath in the Scottish Cup, can't remember the exact year, 1800's anyway. Arbroath won 4-3. Rangers protested, claiming they were "beaten on a back green". Sure enough, the pitch was found to be about 8 inches too narrow. A replay at Ibrox was duly ordered, and the Huns won 8-1. So, the "moaning Hun" stereotype has a long history!Pissed-off Par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 being extremely neutral i would either like the old firm trying their luck in england (dont think thats gonna happen mind, would cause all kinds of complications - having said that welsh teams play in england so i'm sure they could be overcome). but even if they did it would eradicate the problem of secretarianism. hope hearts can continue this run and at least challenge the old firm for part of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 It was....it was started by Saint Marys church in 1887 to help reduce poverty in the Catholic community. Then i dont think it was until the 50's or the 60's that they changed to a non catholic club....meaning they could dominate over rangers by signing prosetent (sp) players. I watched a nice documentary about it....dont know if my dates are right though...You are wrong. Yes it was started by Catholics but not in order to reduce poverty in the catholic community but rather just the poor in the east end of Glasgow, most of which were Irish and were obviously therefore Catholic. Celtic was never a club exclusively for catholic players, they have always been open to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neil ex Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 I'll admit there are others who maybe sing along with songs' date=' stupidly, but don't actually hold the diehard beliefs which only a small section in fact do. It is a minority who are actual trouble makers. [/quote']Am I reading this correctly?It's not OK to sing that filth FULL STOP. Singing that shite whether you mean it or not constitutes as trouble making to me.And it's not 20 or so idiots from your away support that sing those songs, it's a large number. I don't know what it's like at the home games, but your travelling support let down the reputation of Celtic considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Am I reading this correctly?It's not OK to sing that filth FULL STOP. Singing that shite whether you mean it or not constitutes as trouble making to me.And it's not 20 or so idiots from your away support that sing those songs' date=' it's a large number. I don't know what it's like at the home games, but your travelling support let down the reputation of Celtic considerably.[/quote']My point is that the people singing aren't all diehards who are actual bigots and are likely to do anything other than sing the songs. I would say that nor is it acceptable for fans to be singing a song celebrating what was at the time a pontentially career threatening leg break of an opposition player by one of their own players. In my FIRST hand experience Aberdeen fans are equally hateful as the old firm fans, they just think that it's okay because it isn't religious hatred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neil ex Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 My point is that the people singing aren't all diehards who are actual bigots and are likely to do anything other than sing the songs.Those songs are dangerous though. You can't defend people singing those songs. Those songs are offensive. It's unacceptable to tell racist jokes whether you claim to be a racist or not, and it's unacceptable to sing that shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 It's great that the old firm aren't winning. Although football is not within my main interests I would like to see the smile wiped off the scumbags which give Scotland a bad name. Any team winning is preferable over the old firm clubs............I find it quite frankly absurd to see the sectarian hatred between old firm supporters compared with the reaction of Aberdeen fans against the old firm.The old firm is a force of pure evil and biiggotry, particularly Rangers. I know some Rangers fans who don't hate the other side but they are within the minority. Although there are some extreme views held by Aberdeen fans, it tends not to equate into religious hate or any act of violence.Weegies (and people further afield) often fall victim to sectarian-motivated assaults and even murders. It is a widespread problem. Here are some examples of Sectarian troubles.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4365657.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3012613.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4679275.stmI understand that is is perfectly possible to support the old firm and not be a biggot. This usually however, does not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 It's I would like to see the smile wiped off the scumbags which give Scotland a bad name. actually its the old firm that give scotish football decent reputation. if they join the english league other spl teams will go tits up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Some Celtic/Rangers fan sing these songs. About half i would say. Not even all of them. I've been to celtic park and the only thing getting sung by anyone near me was Chumbawumba and Oasis and It's a Grand Old Team and You'll Never Walk Alone. There were others groups of people in other sections singing those songs' date=' but the majority were not. I've also been in the Celtic end at Pittodrie where about 10-20 people were singing those songs, that is all. Neither clubs plays any songs in the stadiums which are sectarian. Rangers even stopped playing Simply the Best for a while because it had been altered by idiots. As for the selling of flags. There is nothing sectarian in an Irish flag in itself. They don't sell IRA merchandise either. Granted it would perhaps be a good move for the clubs to ban the flags but that doesn't mean that everybody carrying a Union Jack or a tri-colour is a bigot. Many are either Irish themselves or are people proud of the clubs Irish heritage. And you are naieve in the extreme if you think that the religious hatred would suddenly cease to exist if they stopped peddlers selling flags and stuff. Unfortunately it is an engrained attitude in the small section of scummy fans who actually promote this kind of stuff. I'll admit there are others who maybe sing along with songs, stupidly, but don't actually hold the diehard beliefs which only a small section in fact do. It is a minority who are actual trouble makers. It is because of the fact that these attitudes are so engrained that anti-bigotry campaigns have failed, not because they don't intend to wipe out bigotry, because they would gain a lot of advantages from doing so, especially as it would enhance the reputation of the old firm. Having said that Celtic fans have a good reputation for their behaviour and are not known to cause much trouble. 80,000 in Seville and not the need for a single arrest.Believe or not the old firm don't actually run the police force so it's not their responsibility for police actions. And unlucky for you if have experience stuff being thrown at you etc, but don't believe for a second that the Aberdeen support is entirely innocent. Aberdeen fans can be just as bad trouble makers. Ever heard of the Aberdeen casuals?And there very well might be pubs in glasgow in the colours of either team, but this doesn't automatically mean that the propeiters or the clientele are guilty of religious hatred, although some no doubtedly are.And the end of the day all i am trying to say is to not exaggerate and say that all old firm fans and those at the clubs are bigots because it is far from the truth.[/quote']Didnt dispute that there are bad elements in aberdeen/celtic/rangers fanbase. It exists i know. i firmly believe that this merchandise is sold in order to provoke hatred. It upsets me and it upsets others. It's got nothing to do with football for me and should remain outside of the footballing world. Football is a mutli-national sport, it shouldnt go down to what country people come from and i think it is wrong to say otherwise. In order to break down these barriers of hatred the clubs must all get together and stop people from having these stupid flags at grounds, they should also stop people from selling this. Wasnt that long ago when rangers had that idiot singing songs at ibrox then provoking an attack from a "fan"That was the same game that the rangers official program called aberdeen fans scum. There is a hatred against aberdeen even from the board room level, thats why i hate them so much. It sickens me that little kids are subjected to this hatred, football is a family event. This drives normal people away. People shouldnt have to go to certain pubs in glasgow to have a drink. All this must stop and people just must get a grip, it's entertainment and not life. Anyone who thinks football is life really needs to get a clue.I really cant get my head round the fact that people want to kick fuck out of each other just because of what colour of shirt or colour of their skin. Ignorance has taken a new step. Is it just me or dont i understand where this world comes from anymore. I wish everyone would screw the head on and get a grip.I dont think people would stop religious hatred due to the stopping of flag sales, but i do think it would be a step in the right direction. All this waving of flags is designed to provoke There has been plenty of matches that i've been to with these so called fans bringing out their stupid flags and it does cause tension, the police know this as i have spoken to them face to face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Union Jacks for Rangers fans, Irish flags for Celtic fans.As an Aberdonian I'll glady wave The Saltire any day, and share it with any other Football fans in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 actually its the old firm that give scotish football decent reputation. if they join the english league other spl teams will go tits upbollocks. consistent failure in europe while walking the league at home does not a decent reputation make.If the old firm were to disappear from Scottish football a few teams on the brink might get pushed over the edge (Livi, Killie, Dunfermline) but the rest would survive, adapt and come back stronger. The league would be more competitve, the football would get better, the national team would improve, some teams might even see europe after christmas. Some of this might happen or all of it might happen, but it's not doom and gloom. Only old firm fans think we can't survive without them.Of course, ideally the old firm will stay in Scotland, stop spending above their means to reach some imaginary level they can't hope to hit while everyone else begins to close the gap meaning the league would be more competitive, the football would get better etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvin Starclusk Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Union Jacks for Rangers fans' date=' Irish flags for Celtic fans.[/quote']Israeli flags for Rangers fans, Palestinian flags for Celtic fans. WTF was that all about??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxton's Superb Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Yet another false reality you are living. Your team buys the other competitions best players then wipeout their career. The fact is your club of weegee's dont want other scottish teams to do well. So many scottish players have had their careers fade away because of your shit club.its entirely up to them to move to them, fuckwit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxton's Superb Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 lets face it these clubs are run on the basis of secratarianism. i felt sick when aberdeen played rangers at hamden in 2000. when ranger and their fans had orange tops on.those were dutch shirts worn in appreciation of Advocaat and the inummerable dutch players we had that helped wipe the fucking floor with you lot that day, idiot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Those songs are dangerous though. You can't defend people singing those songs. Those songs are offensive. It's unacceptable to tell racist jokes whether you claim to be a racist or not' date=' and it's unacceptable to sing that shite.[/quote']Who is defending people singing these songs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 It's great that the old firm aren't winning. Although football is not within my main interests I would like to see the smile wiped off the scumbags which give Scotland a bad name. Any team winning is preferable over the old firm clubs............I find it quite frankly absurd to see the sectarian hatred between old firm supporters compared with the reaction of Aberdeen fans against the old firm.The old firm is a force of pure evil and biiggotry' date=' particularly Rangers. I know some Rangers fans who don't hate the other side but they are within the minority. Although there are some extreme views held by Aberdeen fans, it tends not to equate into religious hate or any act of violence.Weegies (and people further afield) often fall victim to sectarian-motivated assaults and even murders. It is a widespread problem. Here are some examples of Sectarian troubles.[url']http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4365657.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3012613.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4679275.stmI understand that is is perfectly possible to support the old firm and not be a biggot. This usually however, does not happen.I don't know anyone personally who is an old firm fan and a bigot. To say usually this does not happen is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Temple Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 I wish people would stop trying to justify their hatred of the Old Firm. Our irrational prejudices are what seperate us from animals. We hate them for the same reason we hate England, because they are there to be hated. I think it is driven by a hatred of Glasgow. Glasgow is where the power is in Scotland, just as England is where the power is in Britain. Glasgow is our larger, ubiquitous, condescending neighbour. Aberdeen isn't Glasgow and England isn't Scotland. You should defend your home to the hilt. Rangers only get it worse because they are worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I wish people would stop trying to justify their hatred of the Old Firm. Our irrational prejudices are what seperate us from animals. We hate them for the same reason we hate England' date=' because they are there to be hated. I think it is driven by a hatred of Glasgow. Glasgow is where the power is in Scotland, just as England is where the power is in Britain. Glasgow is our larger, ubiquitous, condescending neighbour. Aberdeen isn't Glasgow and England isn't Scotland. You should defend your home to the hilt. Rangers only get it worse because they are worse[/quote']You are right perhaps. People should stop pretending that they hate us because we are all apparently bigots, which we aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I don't know anyone personally who is an old firm fan and a bigot. To say usually this does not happen is ridiculous.Haha, that made me laugh. You obviously have never had any real experiences of Glasweigens. I am unaware of any extreme old firm supporters in Westhill. Having lived in Westhill for the past 14 years I have never came across any extreme old firm fans here apart from one, who I believe has a Union Jack outside his house. Westhill is a posh area and there does not appear to be enough Rangers fans here for them to really become a problem.However, if you were to go to the True Blue's Club in Keith. I believe anyone who wore Green there would be unlikely to come out alive. This is what I heard from a musican who played there and had to play 'Simply The Best' about 6 times. The experience was described as something to the degree 'the worst and scariest gig of my life'.It seems somewhat ironic that people are being deported from the UK for supposedly 'preaching hate' while the Orange Lodge goes unscaved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray@ladymercedes Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 hibs and aberdeen are similarly shit..jesus christ' date=' not necessarily you in particular, but the jambo followers who have suggested the league could be theirs.....you have played the aforementioned, and livingston and motherwell....christ, wait til youve played the old firm at least....thats the real marker of progressOh, and high fives all round for your oh so witty about 'taking my grandma sideways'...clearly your comedy is as good as hearts footballyour just a Gers fan that cant afford the bus ticket, and youve heard the chants all round scottish grounds.....hearts fans spread AIDS.......fact[/quote']Hibs and Aberdeen are shit? What does that say about the dirty huns then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Haha' date=' that made me laugh. You obviously have never had any real experiences of Glasweigens. I am unaware of any extreme old firm supporters in Westhill. Having lived in Westhill for the past 14 years I have never came across any extreme old firm fans here apart from one, who I believe has a Union Jack outside his house. Westhill is a posh area and there does not appear to be enough Rangers fans here for them to really become a problem.However, if you were to go to the True Blue's Club in Keith. I believe anyone who wore Green there would be unlikely to come out alive. This is what I heard from a musican who played there and had to play 'Simply The Best' about 6 times. The experience was described as something to the degree 'the worst and scariest gig of my life'.It seems somewhat ironic that people are being deported from the UK for supposedly 'preaching hate' while the Orange Lodge goes unscaved.[/quote']I know a quite a lot of weegies and none are bigots, because they are ordinary decent people with a sense of morality that decent people have. The fact that they are old firm fans and live in glasgow doesn't make this impossible. When you go somewhere like a dedicated fans pub then of course you are gonna find some of the worst in there, because unfortunately the bigots tend to be very dedicated fans of the actual club in addittion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 those were dutch shirts worn in appreciation of Advocaat and the inummerable dutch players we had that helped wipe the fucking floor with you lot that day' date=' idiot![/quote']Oh, come on! Surely you don't REALLY believe that? That was the most feeble excuse I ever heard. With all the dubious "heritage" and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emilio Largo Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I know a quite a lot of weegies and none are bigots' date=' because they are ordinary decent people with a sense of morality that decent people have. The fact that they are old firm fans and live in glasgow doesn't make this impossible. When you go somewhere like a dedicated fans pub then of course you are gonna find some of the worst in there, because unfortunately the bigots tend to be very dedicated fans of the actual club in addittion.[/quote']People in Aberdeen can be just as bad as the bigots in Glasgow, ask an Aberdeen fan why they hate Rangers and the cant give you a serious answer, its alot of stupid nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 its entirely up to them to move to them' date=' fuckwit.[/quote']That does absolutely nothing to dispute the facts. You can shove your ignorance up you ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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