Flash@TMB Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 The width of the moorings cant be enough to allow a low bass note to develop properly.Just simply for reasons of 66hz bass tone travelling at 330mps will need 5metres to develop....and im not sure the front of the moorings is 5metres wide....so you wont get perfect sound.The pillar at lemontree has a monitor behind to cancel out sound shadows....and there are monitors at the back to stop sound delay/too much fall off....for the people at the back.I haven't measured the width of the room at the stage front but I suspect it is in the region of 5m, although only just. I'll measure it tomorrow out of interest.You probably also know that for a speaker to accurately and correctly reproduce the lowest audible bass frequencies it has to be at least 14 feet in diameter, and a staggering 24 feet to begin producing true sub bass.The Moorings has 2 pairs of full range wide dispertion sterio deplay speakers, one set half way through the room, and the other set 3/4 way through the room. The effect is so seamless that most people don't realise that these are actually functional. Thus the sound is fairly linear throughout but with extra oomph on the dancefloor.We don't suffer from standing waves as the bass gets pretty much a clear run through the entire length of the bar, and it's by all accounts a long room. The are 2 locations where you get little standing waves, right behind the sound engineer and right at the head of the bar. We've gotten used to compensating for the extra bass where the engineer sits, and you'll see us walking around the room to check out the sound throughout when a gig is in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 The important question is....is the moorings pa brain crushingly loud?It can be if we want it to be, but generally we don't. We turn it up loud enough so that everyone can here everything at a comfortable level. It's a distortion free rig so it doesn't hurt your ears or make them ring afterwards. It's often hard to tell just how loud it is because the sound is so clean. We recently changed our house cymbals because the previous cheapo ones were too harsh on jam nights even with the overheads muted. Fortunately most Saturday bands have been bringing along better quality ones!The jukebox goes through the PA all day at normal jukebox volumes. There's not many rigs out there that can reproduce HiFi quality sound at low volume. Amazingly it's so accurate that changing the source from jukebox to Denon A11 SACD produces a very distinct and noticable improvement. Bring along your favourite and best quality CD some Saturday and I'll play it for you after hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 lemon treeand the tunnelsdo both of thes venues supply; PA drumkits? also amps?the tunnels has a drumkit, a bass amp and a guitar amp, all kindly supplied by prosound music on holburn street. and a pa too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 It can be if we want it to be' date='[/quote'] but generally we don't. it doesn't hurt your ears or make them ring afterwards. Bring along your favourite and best quality CD some Saturday and I'll play it for you after hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lime ruined my life Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 PLEASE! please let's keep to the matter at hand, i need those bones real soon. X-( X-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzHines Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 hey! you altered your posts to make it look like im not making any sense!don't get all technical on me! i'll skin you' date=' i'm serious.[/quote']Answer 1: All i changed was the size of the sound wave cause i was using a 33hz sound wave as an example instead of a 66hz.And i also deleted the part about human hearing picking up 3db drops as delay sound, i deleted this cause im not entirly sure if thats correct...it has something to do with reflectance and the likes but im not 100% on the details.Answer 2: No im not at school and havent been for 6 years...Answer 3: Yes my stuff was a little but incoherent thats why i re wrote some of it.....but generally i didnt make you look like a twat, you did by rambling about shite...Answer 4: Bring on the skinning bitch!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 You also telling me that the monitors at the back arent there to cancel out the delay that people would be getting if they stood there? They're not there to cancel anything out. They are there to supply coverage for the rear of the room BUT have to be delayed to coincide with the sound coming out of the main speakers since electricity travels much faster than sound. I think your getting confused between room modes and nodes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 The width of the moorings cant be enough to allow a low bass note to develop properly.Just simply for reasons of 66hz bass tone travelling at 330mps will need 5metres to develop....and im not sure the front of the moorings is 5metres wide....so you wont get perfect sound.The pillar at lemontree has a monitor behind to cancel out sound shadows....and there are monitors at the back to stop sound delay/too much fall off....for the people at the back.The width in front of the speakers is 6m 20cm. This narrows to 4m 75cm which remains consistent to half way down the room. My understanding is that anything over 14ft (4m 20cm) is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzHines Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 They're not there to cancel anything out. They are there to supply coverage for the rear of the room BUT have to be delayed to coincide with the sound coming out of the main speakers since electricity travels much faster than sound. I think your getting confused between room modes and nodes as well.Sorry...your right...that is what i was getting at...forgot to mention they are delayed to sound in time to the people at the back....how much sound can drop off before reflected sound makes you confused? im interested to learn....any info would be nice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lime ruined my life Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 They're not there to cancel anything out. They are there to supply coverage for the rear of the room BUT have to be delayed to coincide with the sound coming out of the main speakers since electricity travels much faster than sound..i was going to say this too, but i decided to call him a toad instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzHines Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Im such a dick head........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lime ruined my life Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 it's ok guys! i got some from bones-org.netcheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Sorry...your right...that is what i was getting at...forgot to mention they are delayed to sound in time to the people at the back....how much sound can drop off before reflected sound makes you confused? im interested to learn....any info would be nice....If I recall correctly then when a wave is relfected it's phase changes. Just to add to your confusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 If I recall correctly then when a wave is relfected it's phase changes. Just to add to your confusion!It can also be deflected and diffused, depending on the surface angle/material it hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lime ruined my life Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 i give these bones 4 thumbs up, not the best. my run was good though, i splashed in the river, and humped a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 It can also be deflected and defused' date=' depending on the surface angle/material it hits.[/quote'] Diffused Mark, tut tut. Unless the band have an "explosive" stage show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzHines Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 The way i understood standing waves was simply>...when two identical waves hit one another travelling in opposite ways then they create a standing wave....therefore you may get a standing wave for instance if a room was less than 5metres wide and a 66hz wave was introduced into the room....the wave wouldnt have enough space to develop properly therefore needs to reflect causing an opposite travelling wave...creating a standing wave?Is this not right?And thats the only thing i was getting at....that the moorings for example would probably suffer greater from standing waves than the lemontree due to its size....reflective areas and so and so forth....Would that be right? (although i know now that the moorings is sufficently large enough to cope with this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Diffused Mark' date=' tut tut. Unless the band have an "explosive" stage show.[/quote']IT'S IAN!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lime ruined my life Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 The way i understood standing waves was simply>...when two identical waves hit one another travelling in opposite ways then they create a standing wave....therefore you may get a standing wave for instance if a room was less than 5metres wide and a 66hz wave was introduced into the room....the wave wouldnt have enough space to develop properly therefore needs to reflect causing an opposite travelling wave...creating a standing wave?Is this not right?And thats the only thing i was getting at....that the moorings for example would probably suffer greater from standing waves than the lemontree due to its size....reflective areas and so and so forth....Would that be right? (although i know now that the moorings is sufficently large enough to cope with this)as i said before, all waves in a confined area will stand.i don't understand this "suffering from standing waves" talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Sorry Ian. I missed an F oops.. You can get standing waves in any situation where you have two parallel reflective surfaces, It does not only occur in the bass frequencies, as long as the distance between the surfaces is correct at a correct wavelength you can get a standing wave.Once you introduce furniture and people it becomes a lot more complex and you are less likely to get any problems.In practice the 5m width does not make as much difference as the bass cab design or proximity with walls or floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Does anyone know if there is an insightful, yet layman's guide to this sort of thing?I don't care for books (unless they are free PDF's) but any weblinks would be great!I'm more interested in accoustic treatment for a studio, how to turn a stoney cave into a tight sounding studio... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Does anyone know if there is an insightful' date=' yet layman's guide to this sort of thing?I don't care for books (unless they are free PDF's) but any weblinks would be great!I'm more interested in accoustic treatment for a studio, how to turn a stoney cave into a tight sounding studio...[/quote']Add a knackered old damp settee with some springs sticking out, a cheap HiFi, a broken monitor and DI everything. Piece of piss. Would you like me to resubmit this advice in PDF format?Oh and ensure the settee in under 5m long and don't position it in front of the bass cab in case in creates a standing wave.A leaky roof usually serves to add some ambiance to the mix.If you really want to push the boat out then try laying some damp brown carpet on the walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Hey, I'm not turning my house into a studio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash@TMB Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Hey' date=' I'm not turning my house into a studio! [/quote']Your profile states "Jack off all". How much do you charge, and do I have to book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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