Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 I really don't want an argument' date=' but WHY? Why the disappointment? A chance for more fans - and I do realise it's about more than that (underground 4 lyfe!) - is not such a bad thing. It's like you're stereotyping NFG fans here. Hell, maybe dozens of them are actually HWM fans themselves, so there's a chance to see them that they perhaps wouldn't have got before.I take it you won't be going to see them then? I would've but there's no Scottish dates this time.[/quote']Yes, its true that some folks who attend these shows may indeed be affected by HWM. However, I'm stunned that a band such as HWM - a band with strong credentials and highly respected, would even consider hitting the road with NFG. I'd put NFG up there with folks such as Bowling For Soup, and Good Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 A bit harsh really' date=' I'm sure there are people who think HWM equally suck or maybe some of the punk outfits you listen to. At the end of the day they play music that they want to, and people who listen to them do so cause we all have a right to have particular taste in music.Martin C x[/quote']A bit harsh? I'd disagree. You cannot compare HWM (or any other such outfit) with NFG. Punk in their hands, and in the hands of Blink, Good Charlotte et al, has become a thing of little substance. It has lost what meaning it had. And so, such outfits should be challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 A bit harsh? I'd disagree. You cannot compare HWM (or any other such outfit) with NFG. Punk in their hands' date=' and in the hands of Blink, Good Charlotte et al, has become a thing of little substance. It has lost what meaning it had. And so, such outfits should be challenged.[/quote']Punk's evolved man, who are you to say who or what can be allowed into the punk fold. Get a grip, it's not some sort of elitist club, any sort of exposure for your beloved farce of a set of ideals should be a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve corps Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 A bit harsh? I'd disagree. You cannot compare HWM (or any other such outfit) with NFG. Punk in their hands' date=' and in the hands of Blink, Good Charlotte et al, has become a thing of little substance. It has lost what meaning it had. And so, such outfits should be challenged.[/quote']i think your outfit should be challenged, starting with...1)why in gods name do you own and wear a pair of vans trainers (yes, you were seen walking up king street a little while back) after starting that ridiculous thread about vans being in league with the devil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medichi Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Whilst Hot Water Music are certainly an important and great band, they have hardly preached by the punk rock bible - they come from the same scene as Less Than Jake for fucks sake! NFG aren't my cup of tea, but a big crowd for HWM sounds like a good idea to me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilunderscorecooper Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Does it really matter?They got offered a chance to play to a much wider audience. What would you have done? Ive seen HWM playing in the 13th Note for fucks sake and Id gladly go and see them supporting NFG. They are a shit hot band and always will be. Supporting nfg = more fans = more likely to come over and do their own headline tour again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 A bit harsh? I'd disagree. You cannot compare HWM (or any other such outfit) with NFG. Punk in their hands' date=' and in the hands of Blink, Good Charlotte et al, has become a thing of little substance. It has lost what meaning it had. And so, such outfits should be challenged.[/quote']Bah.......... boring!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camie Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 whats the big deal?HWM are supporting NFG so what?! All they want to do is get their music heard. Not selling out. I do agree that they will completely blow NFG away but who cares really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkt Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 To say New Found Glory suck is just an opinion. People who love punk and hardcore still like them. I dont personally but I've nothing against them...people say the same things about New Found Glory as they would Sum 41 and i think sum 41 are ace! Besides...New Found Glory contributed to the Rock Against Bush compilation and are supporters of PunkVoter, it may be a bandwagon thing for bands to become a part of but its more than Blink 182 and Bowling for Soup (speaking of which, didnt Capdown support them on tour?) have done so I think the comments of them is a tad harsh. Like I said, I'm not a New Found Glory fan but if it introduces people to Hot Water Music then it can only be a good thing! I'm tempted to go myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplefrodo Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 whats wrong with epitaph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 i think your outfit should be challenged' date=' starting with...1)why in gods name do you own and wear a pair of vans trainers (yes, you were seen walking up king street a little while back) after starting that ridiculous thread about vans being in league with the devil?[/quote']I had been ignoring your posts, but on this occasion feel that I gotta reply.I do not wear Vans sneakers. I wear Converse CTs, bought I should add prior to Nike taking over ownership of the company.Look man, if you're gonna take a swipe at me at least get your facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Punk's evolved man' date=' who are you to say who or what can be allowed into the punk fold. Get a grip, it's not some sort of elitist club, any sort of exposure for your beloved farce of a set of ideals should be a bonus.[/quote']I'm sorry, but you cannot ignore the ethics that made punk what it is. Sure, some may not consider them of any relevance, but this should not be surprising. The mainstreaming of punk via the popularity of such acts as Green Day, The Offspring, Blink etc, has had a disastrous effect. Folks who will have discovered punk through these guys will not have realised how vital a component the DIY ethic was, of how important a component politics was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Whilst Hot Water Music are certainly an important and great band' date=' they have hardly preached by the punk rock bible - they come from the same scene as Less Than Jake for fucks sake! NFG aren't my cup of tea, but a big crowd for HWM sounds like a good idea to me.....[/quote']HWM does indeed come from the very same part of the world as LTJ does. Both outfits would release material through No Idea. That said, I however fail to see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Coz they suck? What these guys pass off as punk is a joke.but then is punk about the music or the ethic ? I mean can a band like the sex pistols still be regarded as a punk band because they so blatantly sold out and you're adamant that a band can't be good or 'real' punks if they did that - if so, according to you for a band to be judged punk isn't about the music but the ethics and the politics, this is what i never understand. To me it's a genre of music and people like you who have fallen in behind it have done so looking for a cause because a few of the bands covered topics that inspired and interested you, because as far as i can see there were punk bands in the first wave who wrote about whatever they wanted, not great political things, let's be honest 'God save the Queen' and 'Anarchy in the UK' were not written as great political statements but as ways of pushing the boundaries and trying to sshock, surely punk started as a way of teenage rebellion, same as rock and roll had 20 years previously - not as a political movement, and then it was adopted by peopl;e who needed something to rally behind, surely you can see that the changes affected are effectively non existant, it's a community of people with good intentions. As someone who has been a longtime fan of Queen (one of the bands you wanted to sweep away) I have found the community of fans worldwide with them are all great guys and nice blokes and as likely to facilitate change - my point is they have good intentions they do what they do - they rally behind causes they believe in, and have fun , same as you, but without the holier than thou attitude. CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 To say New Found Glory suck is just an opinion. People who love punk and hardcore still like them. I dont personally but I've nothing against them...people say the same things about New Found Glory as they would Sum 41 and i think sum 41 are ace! Besides...New Found Glory contributed to the Rock Against Bush compilation and are supporters of PunkVoter' date=' it may be a bandwagon thing for bands to become a part of but its more than Blink 182 and Bowling for Soup (speaking of which, didnt Capdown support them on tour?) have done so I think the comments of them is a tad harsh. Like I said, I'm not a New Found Glory fan but if it introduces people to Hot Water Music then it can only be a good thing! I'm tempted to go myself[/quote']Bout Capdown? Sure, they did indeed play out with Bowling For Soup, and am critical of them for this very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I'm sorry' date=' but you cannot ignore the ethics that made punk what it is. Sure, some may not consider them of any relevance, but this should not be surprising. The mainstreaming of punk via the popularity of such acts as Green Day, The Offspring, Blink etc, has had a disastrous effect. Folks who will have discovered punk through these guys will not have realised how vital a component the DIY ethic was, of how important a component politics was.[/quote']Bu thats the point the DIY ethic isn't important anymore if it was it couldn't exist without it, it's evolved beyond that. I love the phrase: 'you cannot ignore the ethic of punk' - obviously you can, and why, because the ethic is something that an older generatoon of punks have put onto a younger generation of music. Are people entitled to the money they make through music according to the ethics or should it all be given away ? Sometimes i think its success more than the betrayal of ethics that upsets you because they're no longer your little secret. Music has moved on - its used in different ways than it was in the late 70's, can't you move on and let people enjoy what they enjoy ithout berating them for liking a whole genre. CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Bout Capdown? Sure' date=' they did indeed play out with Bowling For Soup, and am critical of them for this very reason.[/quote']Well you need to get over yourself and let thge band ennjoy their success without critisizing them for following their dreams and getting out there playing to bigger audiences,m who are you to dictate rules to people you've never met about modern music which you obviously know very little about, if a band doesn't evbolve and move on it stagnates and dies. CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 but then is punk about the music or the ethic ? I mean can a band like the sex pistols still be regarded as a punk band because they so blatantly sold out and you're adamant that a band can't be good or 'real' punks if they did that - if so' date=' according to you for a band to be judged punk isn't about the music but the ethics and the politics, this is what i never understand. To me it's a genre of music and people like you who have fallen in behind it have done so looking for a cause because a few of the bands covered topics that inspired and interested you, because as far as i can see there were punk bands in the first wave who wrote about whatever they wanted, not great political things, let's be honest 'God save the Queen' and 'Anarchy in the UK' were not written as great political statements but as ways of pushing the boundaries and trying to sshock, surely punk started as a way of teenage rebellion, same as rock and roll had 20 years previously - not as a political movement, and then it was adopted by peopl;e who needed something to rally behind, surely you can see that the changes affected are effectively non existant, it's a community of people with good intentions. As someone who has been a longtime fan of Queen (one of the bands you wanted to sweep away) I have found the community of fans worldwide with them are all great guys and nice blokes and as likely to facilitate change - my point is they have good intentions they do what they do - they rally behind causes they believe in, and have fun , same as you, but without the holier than thou attitude. CheersStuart[/quote']I'm sorry, but I at no time said that music was of no importance to punk. What I did say, was that punk was bout more than JUST music.And no, the Pistols (while together) did not sell out. Individual members? Well, that is another matter.You appear to believe that punk's link with politics fiction - that it is something that I (and others) have picked from the sky. What I have spoken of is fact. The political strife that then existed in Britain was of extreme importance. It in part gave rise to punk. And Anarchy and God Save The Queen were not written so as to shock. Do you know anything bout the Pistols at all?And Queen a band that I wanted to sweep away. Not I, but those first punks. And why you will not accept this, I do not know. It is accepted fact. Those who were there have said so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 hello... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Bu thats the point the DIY ethic isn't important anymore if it was it couldn't exist without it' date=' it's evolved beyond that. I love the phrase: 'you cannot ignore the ethic of punk' - obviously you can, and why, because the ethic is something that an older generatoon of punks have put onto a younger generation of music. Are people entitled to the money they make through music according to the ethics or should it all be given away ? Sometimes i think its success more than the betrayal of ethics that upsets you because they're no longer your little secret. Music has moved on - its used in different ways than it was in the late 70's, can't you move on and let people enjoy what they enjoy ithout berating them for liking a whole genre. CheersStuart[/quote']Your first point is quite ridiculous. What we have via folks such as Blink etc is not punk. So the scene has evolved? Nonsense. The DIY punk community still exists. It still thrives. It didn't disappear. It didn't evolve.And of course those folks involved are entitled to the cash they make through shows, releases etc. *shakes head*And success has nothing to do with it. Jesus, we've been through this before. Some of my most fave acts were way bigger than the supposed movers and shakers of today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 hello...hello.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve corps Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I had been ignoring your posts' date=' but on this occasion feel that I gotta reply.I do not wear Vans sneakers. I wear Converse CTs, bought I should add prior to Nike taking over ownership of the company.Look man, if you're gonna take a swipe at me at least get your facts straight.[/quote']1)you were wearing vans, fact2)you bought your converse CTs AFTER the Nike debacle.we share a common friend you see, and i have inside info meaning my facts are both straight and true, whereas you look like a bit of a fake now, dont you? on one hand you go spouting off about all your various punk does and donts then behind closed doors you dress in gap joggers and a fur coat dancing about to the new darius record(maybe a bit over the top but you know EXACTLY what i mean). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well you need to get over yourself and let thge band ennjoy their success without critisizing them for following their dreams and getting out there playing to bigger audiences' date='m who are you to dictate rules to people you've never met about modern music which you obviously know very little about, if a band doesn't evbolve and move on it stagnates and dies. CheersStuart[/quote']Following their dreams? What do you know of their dreams? The reason you find what I've said here difficult to grasp is I guess (and I apologize if this is not the case) coz you're thinking is based on the traditional methods of producing rock. What I've said is perhaps alien to you. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 hello....I had to add fullstops.They spoiled it really.Damn minimum message length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 1)you were wearing vans' date=' fact2)you bought your converse CTs AFTER the Nike debacle.we share a common friend you see, and i have inside info meaning my facts are both straight and true, whereas you look like a bit of a fake now, dont you? on one hand you go spouting off about all your various punk does and donts then behind closed doors you dress in gap joggers and a fur coat dancing about to the new darius record(maybe a bit over the top but you know EXACTLY what i mean).[/quote']You're wrong, so what you say is not straight and true. Do Vans produce a canvas vegan shoe? Not as far as I know.And regarding my buying my Converse CTs - was this friend in attendance when I bought them? Sure, I did not start to wear the particular pair that I'm wearing right now til a few weeks ago. However, I bought them several months back. Was wearing out the pair I had. Fraid I can't prove this of course. Just as you cannot prove what you have said.So I'm a fake? Not at all. It may be difficult for you to grasp, but not everyone couldn't give a shit. Some people (like myself) do indeed take their politics seriously, living their lives (if possible) without support of exploitation or oppressive practices.Finally, can I ask who this common friend is? Send me a pm if you'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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