Flossie T Sheep Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Your argument is deeply flawed.I would be in favour of banning the sectarian marches of the Orange order for the very same reason as I would the marches of the NF. The Orange Order march through Catholic neighbourhoods with the express intention of intimidating those communities. Just because this wrong is allowed to take place does not meen we should allow the NF to commit simmilar acts of intimidation.You suggest "the whole debate is ringed with hypocracisy" but it is not those who would march in the Orange Order who are trying to stop the NF march so it is not their hyporcracy.maybe if they were marching down the street with guns slung round their shoulders then yeah i would be inclined to agree with you on the intimidation point you make i think its more of a statement of them exercising their democratic right to march and make their point rather than intimidation, although their policies and doctrines are heavily based on intimidation and fearits "hypocrisy" by the way messrs Cloud and Monkey best wishesel flosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 i don't like your avatar' date=' i find it offensive and i have proof -[img']http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dhsu/for_you/Comics/calvin_and_hobbes-yawn.pngthe very first scene in that comic strip, an animal sleeping with a child, i am sorry but bestiality is one thing but paedophilia is another, i think your avatar is offensive and should be banned then you should be banned for posting up almost pornographic pictures of animals in a state of bondage, not only are you posting up pictures of toys that promote sexual perversities against animals but also sexual perversities on dead horses!if one person can ask to get what they don't like censored by the moderators of this board then i think everyone should be allowed that same rightyou've went too far Hobbes and i want this thread closed down now best wishes,el flosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Your argument is deeply flawed.I would be in favour of banning the sectarian marches of the Orange order for the very same reason as I would the marches of the NF. The Orange Order march through Catholic neighbourhoods with the express intention of intimidating those communities. Just because this wrong is allowed to take place does not meen we should allow the NF to commit simmilar acts of intimidation.You suggest "the whole debate is ringed with hypocracisy" but it is not those who would march in the Orange Order who are trying to stop the NF march so it is not their hyporcracy.I'm suggesting that the hypocrisy is based on the fact that people are campaigning against the NF on grounds of intimidation and fear - something the Orange marches do' date=' yet there's very little complaint from those who aren't Catholic. In fact, if I remeber rightly, the biggest opposition to the Orange guys were Aberdeen football casuals - who duly got locked in a pub. Why, I ask are these people protesting against the NF not protesting against the annual 12th of July marches in Glasgow? Why are they not protesting against the red/white/blue kerbstones in Airdrie and other places? I don't believe we should allow the NF to march on the grounds that the Orange guys do it - I believe the people protesting against fascism should also be protesting against other marches with the same intent as the NF. I think it's very easy to protest against the NF on the grounds that nothing is likely to happen if you protest - even if it turns nasty, it's likely to involve trading of fists. I wouldn't feel so secure protesting against an Orange march - having read a few accounts of what happened to people that got in the way of a march in Glasgow, I wouldn't fancy having a square go with a few Orange guys. Religion is still seen, by far too many, as something which shouldn't be questioned too much. "It's a personal thing, your religion". Bollocks. Not when you try and make it other people's problem.Sadly so - yet in my opinion, religion is a human right, but it's not a right to inflict those views upon others. I agree with the sentiment of the NF march being banned - I have no desire to see those Nazis (allright..i give in, i'll call them nazis, as long as i don't get called a nazi sympathiser ) spread their crap in a place that will still react in utter horror to a racial assault. My problem with actually protesting is this - I don't wish to join people like the AUAF in protesting (due to utter suspicion about their motives - and the fact that they appear obsessive with fascists..when there's many, many more enemies out there than just fascists) - I have a feeling that I would be percieved as part of them when I'm not and I have no intention of being so. Jakey, out of interest, what's the SSP's stance on the NF marching? I still haven't joined a party, being torn between the SSP and SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psydoll Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 I wanna do that! Since I'll be up at Marischal all day.While I agree with the principals of this protest' date=' I also agree with the people who raised the point that causing more disruption for the traffic on Aberdeen just takes away the point completely.Anyone up for a sit down protest? [/color']Are you actually taking part in a sit-down protest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psydoll Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Are you actually taking part in a sit-down protest?Just to clarify - I'd be there on Monday even if poncho lad isn't If it's a serious offer then I imagine there'd be plenty anti-NF people would join us eventually...I have no banner/sign/flag at the moment loike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Oh dear' date=' I thought we had seen the end of your ill-informed rubbish being posted on here? Don't fret though, I'm quite glad, I have a few minutes before I have to go to work and now atleast they can be mildly entertaining. Firstly you are not morally superior to anyone else, you merely have different beliefs. It is important to remember this because of where we live. I hate to pull out the Blairite response but "you're just lucky you're in a country where you can have your protest" Now I don't mean this as Tony boy does, I am not undermining your views, all that I am saying is that rights are universal and your class warrior antics does not make you some sort of moral crusader with the special rights to impede on someone elses freedom. I'm a fairly left wing socialist, I completely disagree with NF policies, but I am not going to disagree with their right to speak as we do. I'm sure you took part in that anti-war protest, how would you have felt had you been denied your right to do so. Don't give me any shite about popular consensus, lots of people supported the Nazi's that didn't make it right. It is impossible for anyone to be impartial in politics therefor everyone must be allowed to speak. What exactly are you afraid of? That they might reach the people you've failed to reach in all your years of activism? This march should have been a laughing stock, but you idiots have made sure that it will recieve massive publicity. If I wasn't working I would go to this demonstration of yours and laugh at you all. And people wonder why liberals are never taken seriously.[/quote']i can see your point here and yes, we are meant to live in a democracy where various groups who hold different beliefs and opinions should be allowed to exercise their right to air their views in the public domain but i don't see how or why groups like the NF have the right to tell anyone who should have the right to live in this country or who should have the right to make money heretheir policies are ludicrous because they go on about "Britain being for British people" but they fail to realise that Britain is a multi-racial society and that you do actually get people with different colour of skin who were actually born here and speak with the same accents as they do so their policies and opinions become rather absurdbesides, i was born on planet Earth, not Britain, and it was a round world the last time i checked best wishes,el flosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 their policies are ludicrous because they go on about "Britain being for British people" but they fail to realise that Britain is a multi-racial society and that you do actually get people with different colour of skin who were actually born here and speak with the same accents as they do so their policies and opinions become rather absurdand this is why i put forward the point that the Orange marches are just as bad as the NF - they pretty much spout the same bollocks that the NF do. as i say - it's fashionable and most of all easy to protest against the NF, hence it provides a good way for people to protest/kick up a fuss without much harm coming to them. i don't think people would do the same when it comes to standing up for minority catholic rights in protestant towns roundabout glasgow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimr Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 i can see your point here and yes' date=' we are meant to live in a democracy where various groups who hold different beliefs and opinions should be allowed to exercise their right to air their views in the public domain but i don't see how or why groups like the NF have the right to tell anyone who should have the right to live in this country or who should have the right to make money heretheir policies are ludicrous because they go on about "Britain being for British people" but they fail to realise that Britain is a multi-racial society and that you do actually get people with different colour of skin who were actually born here and speak with the same accents as they do so their policies and opinions become rather absurdbesides, i was born on planet Earth, not Britain, and it was a round world the last time i checked best wishes,el flosso [/quote']It doesn't matter what they believe. We live in a society where the majority rule. That is our only moral. If over 50% of the population supported killing all black people that would be demcracy in action. We should really stop glamourising it. Thankfully, Britain is about the most boring place to live on the planet. There is very little clout in extemist organisations here. People care only for stablity. We don't really care how that comes about, and it's here where our lack of morality becomes especially helpful. Indeed it is only because we are so incrediby uninteresting that we can have this lovely thing called free speech. I mean it's not hard to implement when nothing anyone says is going to make the blindest bit of difference to the most conservative society on the planet. Yet it seems that even here free speech can't quite flourish. There will always be those who say "yes people can say what they want, as long as what they say conforms to the normal boundries of current morality" In the vastly greater words of Bill Hicks, "you are free to do as we tell you" So go on, smash the fascists, and in 50 years time when natural resources run low and political extremists surge to power, don't complain when they clamp down on our free speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 i don't like your avatar' date=' i find it offensive and i have proof -[img']http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dhsu/for_you/Comics/calvin_and_hobbes-yawn.pngthe very first scene in that comic strip, an animal sleeping with a child, i am sorry but bestiality is one thing but paedophilia is another, i think your avatar is offensive and should be banned then you should be banned for posting up almost pornographic pictures of animals in a state of bondage, not only are you posting up pictures of toys that promote sexual perversities against animals but also sexual perversities on dead horses!if one person can ask to get what they don't like censored by the moderators of this board then i think everyone should be allowed that same rightyou've went too far Hobbes and i want this thread closed down now best wishes,el flosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 It doesn't matter what they believe. We live in a society where the majority rule. That is our only moral. If over 50% of the population supported killing all black people that would be demcracy in action. We should really stop glamourising it. Thankfully' date=' Britain is about the most boring place to live on the planet. There is very little clout in extemist organisations here. People care only for stablity. We don't really care how that comes about, and it's here where our lack of morality becomes especially helpful. Indeed it is only because we are so incrediby uninteresting that we can have this lovely thing called free speech. I mean it's not hard to implement when nothing anyone says is going to make the blindest bit of difference to the most conservative society on the planet. Yet it seems that even here free speech can't quite flourish. There will always be those who say "yes people can say what they want, as long as what they say conforms to the normal boundries of current morality" In the vastly greater words of Bill Hicks, "you are free to do as we tell you" So go on, smash the fascists, and in 50 years time when natural resources run low and political extremists surge to power, don't complain when they clamp down on our free speech.[/quote']no, indolence, apathy and laziness is why keeps the middle classes ruling over this country, people are happy to sit and allow a conservative government to control every part of their lives. the fact that you display that defeatist attitude above is why these people will always be in power, that attitude is spawned by a myth that you are powerless and that you don't have to control of your own life, its rubbish.i think people like the NF and the BNP are directing their energy and anger to hitting the wrong targets, if they at least vented out that frustration they have against the people they blame all of society's ills on the people and institutions who really make this country crap then perhaps that might improve their own unhappy misguided confused lives.i am not complaining about your post son, i am pretty much agreeing with what you've written down but i don't believe in people just accepting what they have because thats what the government wants people to think, keep 'em satisfied enough with what they have and let the middle classes get all the concessions, thats always been the way here and people accept itits the same thing with those in-bred layabouts in Buckingham Palace as well, your taxes and my taxes and everyone else's taxes being used to pay for their skiing holidays and for them to give their kids a better education and for them to live a life of luxury at our expense? i think its horrifying that people tolerate that, its atrocious and offensive, the royal family are an irrelevant and antiquated tradition that keeps this country living in the pastthe fact of the matter is that people like the NF hit at all the wrong targets, until they wake up and realise that then perhaps they'll do something worth getting angry about that, if they wanted to get rid of foreigners that are really bleeding this country dry, they should get rid of the Royal Family, Germans are foreigners ain't they? best wishesel flosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 if we're discussing drinks now' date=' can i suggest the following product in your case(someone linked me to your picture on the Members Galleries) -[img']http://www.rossmann.de/p_images/42/54/07/03.jpgi look forward to your outrage and this thread being closed down and my account being banned best wishesEl Flosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tristen Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Surely banning you would be against freedom of speech unless... oh wait, yes thats right, they don't like what your saying so democracy doesn't apply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 if we're discussing drinks now' date=' can i suggest the following product in your case(someone linked me to your picture on the Members Galleries) -[img']http://www.rossmann.de/p_images/42/54/07/03.jpgi look forward to your outrage and this thread being closed down and my account being banned best wishesEl Flosso You calling me fat? That's outrageous, here's a snap from my family album which proves it...Adonis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Surely banning you would be against freedom of speech unless... oh wait' date=' yes thats right, they don't like what your saying so democracy doesn't apply![/quote']i am sure the moderators would find a way to contradict their own agreements and rules and ban me after Hobbet complained about it vehemently, which makes me laugh because the Hobbet seems to be against censorship but yet calls for it vociferously when anything bad is said about him, an amusing contradiction in terms aren't you? i also read that the Hobbet wants to be a politician, you're a pile of confusion Mr Hobbes, you want to be a politician do you?, from what i have seen of political debates from my 35 years of being on this planet as a human being is that they usually consist of a bunch of parties slagging off each other's policies and personalities, you seem a bit too brittle-boned for that kind of caper my friend You calling me fat?i am sure there's a list of better words i could call you from the posts i have read of your's in recent weeks - pompous, pretentious, sanctimonious, pious, hypocritical, self-aggrandising, self-righteous, contradictory, dubious, spurious, confused and fake are the words that immediately spring to mind i will leave the members of this forum to add their own words to describe you if they see fit and i would never call you fat as its too easy and i don't want to be the one to point out how many chins a two-faced person like yourself has best wishes el flosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 i am sure the moderators would find a way to contradict their own agreementa and rules and ban me after Hobbet complained about it vehemently' date=' which makes me laugh because the Hobbet seems to be against censorship but yet calls for it vociferously when anything bad is said about him, an amusing contradiction in terms aren't you? [/quote']Will we ever see The Shire again Mr Flosso?i am sure there's a list of better words i could call you from the posts i have read of your's in recent weeks - pompous, pretentious, sanctimonious, pious, hypocritical, self-aggrandising, self-righteous, contradictory, dubious, spurious, confused and fake are the words that immediately spring to mind i will leave the members of this forum to add their own words to describe you if they see fit I think some people may have something to say about that..."I'll lay down the word challenges round here buster"and i would never call you fat as its too easy and i don't want to be the one to point out how many chins a two-faced person like yourself has moi? two faced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Will we ever see The Shire again Mr Flosso?you won't get into The Shire looking like this! I think some people may have something to say about that..."I'll lay down the word challenges round here buster"http://www.smallbaldman.com/dvdimages/BUSTER.jpg' alt='BUSTER.jpg'>thats a groovy kind of word love i was giving you moi? two faced?so which face should i answer that question to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 you won't get into The Shire looking like this! By the look of me nips' date=' that was a cold day...thats a groovy kind of word love i was giving you I don't get it, one minute it's all about me being two-faced, the next it is all about two hearts living in just one mind...so which face should i answer that question to? take your pick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimr Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 no' date=' indolence, apathy and laziness is why keeps the middle classes ruling over this country, people are happy to sit and allow a conservative government to control every part of their lives. the fact that you display that defeatist attitude above is why these people will always be in power, that attitude is spawned by a myth that you are powerless and that you don't have to control of your own life, its rubbish.i think people like the NF and the BNP are directing their energy and anger to hitting the wrong targets, if they at least vented out that frustration they have against the people they blame all of society's ills on the people and institutions who really make this country crap then perhaps that might improve their own unhappy misguided confused lives.i am not complaining about your post son, i am pretty much agreeing with what you've written down but i don't believe in people just accepting what they have because thats what the government wants people to think, keep 'em satisfied enough with what they have and let the middle classes get all the concessions, thats always been the way here and people accept itits the same thing with those in-bred layabouts in Buckingham Palace as well, your taxes and my taxes and everyone else's taxes being used to pay for their skiing holidays and for them to give their kids a better education and for them to live a life of luxury at our expense? i think its horrifying that people tolerate that, its atrocious and offensive, the royal family are an irrelevant and antiquated tradition that keeps this country living in the pastthe fact of the matter is that people like the NF hit at all the wrong targets, until they wake up and realise that then perhaps they'll do something worth getting angry about that, if they wanted to get rid of foreigners that are really bleeding this country dry, they should get rid of the Royal Family, Germans are foreigners ain't they? best wishesel flosso [/quote']#I wasn't talking about the government. I was talking about the people. British people are generally indifferent. What I as trying to say was that protesting and the like is about the least likely way to reach the sort of people that make decisions in this country. They should be more subtle, get to power on a policiy of not raising taxes and then carry out a mass lynching on all opposition. But yeah i get your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 take your pick...i couldn't possibly choose one because as far as i know, none of them supported the SNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 take your pick...surely a weapon of choice? no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 surely a weapon of choice? no?You seem to be clutching at these now - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 have been for a while mate, mind you you're not exactly the most objective observer in all this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 have been for a while mate' date=' mind you you're not exactly the most objective observer in all this...[/quote']think that should be interpreted as "Tubby bye bye" to you Mr Paranoid from Mr Hobbes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 leave my tinky winky out of this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 leave my tinky winky out of this...only if you stop swinging your handbag at Mr Paranoid, you two should learn to play nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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