recording live stuff?

[Guest Tam o' Shantie]

is it true that you have facilities to record each channel seperately from the live desk so that bands can have it all mixed later on? how does it work? we'd really like to record our set this saturday, and having it mixed for bonus tracks etc on future releases, any help would be really appreciated

[Flash@TMB]

OK the only problem is that we're still waiting for the last essentail piece of kit (the interface card) to arrive. So no can do this Saturday.

But yes in future we will be able to record every channel on the dsk individually in raw form. This means without any EQ, gates, compressors, or FX applied. This would enable the whole performance to be entirely remixed with improved EQ, gating, compression and FX at someone's leisure. We can also take a feed in from the audience. The recording process is also fully digital and takes digital feeds from our desk. This means the intsruments are picked up by the mics or whatever, sent to the desk, converted to digital data, then sent to the recorder.

The recording system also has the facility to add in EQ, compression, gating, editing, FX etc all in the digital domain. This helps to preserve the quality of recording. Alternatively should there be a requirement to run a particular datastream through an analog unit then this is also possible.

Once each channel/track/datastream has been processed, in other words once we have revisited the kick drum track and made it sound just the way we want it to and so forth, then we can build up the balance of the various tacks in the mix, and then apply futher layers of compression etc if necessary.

[Guest Tam o' Shantie]

arghhhh, when will this card be arriving? that's annoying. any chance we could record a stereo output from the desk then? ie the live mix

[MTA]

It is all setup and ready to go:D

[Flash@TMB]

We've done some recording now and it works a treat. Tom can't believe you've missed your chance LOL. Get a room yet BTW?

We've produced one complete track from the recordings so far, and that was Contra's 'Without You'. We're really happy with the results - they're everything we hoped for. MTA has done a fantastic job. I just hope that Contra are pleased with it!

We're going to start work on last nights gig now and see what comes out.

[The Milner]

Any chance of us getting to hear what the contra thing sounds like??

[Flash@TMB]

Any chance of us getting to hear what the contra thing sounds like??

Yes, if you come to the bar on Tuesday night then I'll play it after the movie ends. Hopefully this track will appear on our jukebox as part of a 'Live at the Moorings' CD, but first I need to be sure that Contra are 100% happy with it. The band have copies of it, and we're waiting to hear back from them.

[The Milner]

Sweet sounds good. Im really interested to hear how it sounds. Played in your bar once and i loved it, cant think of a place that gives a good a sound anywhere in aberdeen so it'd be interesting to hear some live stuff from there.

[unbroken]

We are well chuffed with the recording quality we got. It sound amazing....seriously! Wasn't the tightest gig we have ever played, but it was so much fun...I got chatted up by a gay guy, so we must have done something good...awesome.

Everyone has to play at the moorings, re-inventing itself as one of Aberdeen's better live venues. Amazing amazing stuff.

Cheers to everyone at The Moorings...

xXscottXx

[Teabags]

any chance of a recording of Filthpacts set on Dec 18th. would be much appreciated. bonus live tracks would be ace.

[Flash@TMB]

any chance of a recording of Filthpacts set on Dec 18th. would be much appreciated. bonus live tracks would be ace.

The live recording equipment is owned by the bar' date=' and I will happily to push record. We've outsourced the production exclusively to Mark Thomas Audio (MTA on aberdeen-music), meaning production is independently operated as a separarte concern. This is to ensure that any tracks produced from the recording and subsequently released are of an acceptable quality that reflects well on the bar. So please note that the bar will not release any raw data tracks to artists or bands; MTA has exclusive production rights.

At present MTA is building up a little portfolio of tracks that will feature on a CD in our jukebox and hopefully drum up some business. He selects which tracks he wants to add to the showcase, and some lucky artists are benefiting from a free live recorded track.

Outside of that any act that plays in the bar can comission MTA to produce one or more live tracks on their behalf. So the recording is free, but MTA will charge for the production. The costs will vary but a band should expect to pay upwards of 100 quid per track, although a solo accoustic artist is likely to be charged substantially less. MTA will be only to happy for the band to provide some input into the production but obviously the longer you spend...

Not many bands will be looking to record and produce an entire live session, so this is most likely to be used as a cost effective means of adding a bonus live track to an EP... The charges will seem more than reasonable once you hear the quality. He's produced 3 tracks to date, the aforementioned Contra track Without You, a Jo McCafferty accoustic track called Melt, and a Red Medicine (Inept 303) track called Problems.

We're utilising anything up to 18 mics on each recording, including a stereo pair of rear facing crowd mics. The snare drum gets 2 mics, one top and one bottom.

All the bar requires in return for me pushing record is a credit on the back of the EP saying "Track [i']x recorded live at The Moorings Bar in Aberdeen and produced by Mark Thomas Audio." Neither the bar or MTA will release any of the tracks we record without prior consent from the artists involved, and this includes showcasing them on the jukebox. So if you don't like then we'll wipe!

If anyone does intend to request a recording then please ensure that:

a) You've rehearsed plenty and are tight as fuck.

b) You have all FX, sounds, and levels fully sorted out.

c) It's also worth slightly compromising the stage volumes to reduce mic bleed. It's a good idea to contact MTA in advance to discuss performance techniques for ensuring a good recording.

d) Leave at least 2 clear seconds before, and 10 clear secs after each tune for applause.

e) Make sure you sing into the mics... LOL!

All this will help keep production costs to a minimum.

[MitchPact]

So the recording is free' date=' but MTA will charge for the production. The costs will vary but a band should expect to pay upwards of 100 quid per track.

[/quote']

At 100 a track we'll be giving that one a miss then sadly, we've just agreed to do a whole album (12 + Songs) with a weeks worth of recording and another few days producing for the same amount.

[Flash@TMB]

At 100 a track we'll be giving that one a miss then sadly' date=' we've just agreed to do a whole album (12 + Songs) with a weeks worth of recording and another few days producing for the same amount.[/quote']

Dave - please could you clarify, are you getting a weeks recording and 12 tracks produced for 100 or 1200?

Unfortunately we operate in an environment where some fool that's only attended one soundcheck feels equipped to pass judgment on the venue (LMAO)... so we've got to ensure that anything associated with the bar is of the highest quality. That's why we've stipulated that any releases are produced by MTA. Here's an article on Mark that I tracked down using Google:

http://www.audiocourses.com/article83.html

He really is shit hot!

I must stress that the bar does not charge anything for use of this recording facility - even though the equipment cost a packet. And 100 to get a track produced by the same engineer that worked on the various Muse albums has got to be a bargain!

[MTA]

You gone and embarrassed me now

[Flash@TMB]

You gone and embarrassed me now

I can easy go back and edit out the word 'hot' from that post...

[Delly]

I can easy go back and edit out the word 'hot' from that post...

haha that would just be mean!

[Cloud]

Oi, Flash, delete some of your pm's will you?

it's cool by the way for the 2nd saturday.

[The Milner]

For over 100 pounds you could record a whole ep at captain toms or have a good afternoon out in the mill recording. That is very very expensive. I mean how many bands in aberdeen or for that matter touring bands will have or want to spend 100 on one live song?? Your asking bands to pay you more than 3 times what they will get for the whole gig for one song. The whole production rights doesnt seem very fair and yes i read the article and he obviously knows what he is doing and what not, but why should he have sole rights of producing what i record? But whos to say that again just an example but whos to say that nial who has worked with my band a few times now wouldnt be able to mix and produce it better having known our band better??

Surely charging for the recording and giving the bands the option of using MTA to produce it would be a better idea, just seems to me that you guys are the only ones that will really benefit from this thing.

Sorry just needed to rant for a bit

Edit: after thinking more about it how long does MTA think they will take to produce or mix one song?? Surely no more than a few hours and you are chargin over 100??? Thats more expensive than any studio in aberdeen.

[eat your parents]

So what happens if you're not planning to release the tracks?

We record every show we play now, so we can see where we went wrong, what sounded good etc. A couple of the tracks from the last Lemon Tree show, are going on on the webshite.

I'm not trying to cause trouble, just interested. We're playing your venue on the 11th December I'm told, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

[jester1470]

I've heard the recordings that you did of Contra and it was very, very good, however I think tht the whole exclusivity thing is a bit silly, I can't think of any other venue that does this. If you're worried abiout the quality of the tracks then why not make a contract with the stipulation that if the quality of mixing doesn't reach the standards that show the Moorings in a favourable light then they can't release it. Martin did a superb job on Emma's sound on Saturday possibly the best I've heard anyone do with her, and we would love the raw data of that recording to put into our own studio and tidy up and release, but we can't afford 100 a track. I know Martin's good at what he does but so's the guy we'd use and he knows and has worked with Emma so knows what we want. Very few bands will pay for it, and you're effectively shooting yourself in the foot, you've paid for this great recordiing setup and it was a great incentive to get bands to play the moorings, but not at those prices and with those rules. Touring bands will take their own engineer, what happens then ? you can't put this kind of exclusivity and more importantly that sort of price on band playing a venue the size of the moorings, that's pointless and counter productive.

Still thats how I see it, still a damn good venue, the sound was brilliant but there's no way we'd pay that for any tracks. Another point that should be made is shouldn't the bands have a choice in what song's mixed ? If you decide to mix the songs by the lucky few what value to the bands is there if you mix a song thats old and not that representative of where the band is now.

Cheers

Stuart

[Doc Ascension]

i have to agree with the last few chaps... i mean, it is utterly fantastic that the moorings have gone to all the expense of this awesome live recording set up, but at 100 a track, it would be tragically under used.

I think you should look at charging for the recording itself, and have some stipulation that if the quality of the production doesn't suit The Moorings then the recording shall be returned and money refunded with no possibility of releasing it.

It is totally understandable, but with a price so high for one song - there must be another way!!

[The Milner]

i have to agree with the last few chaps... i mean' date=' it is utterly fantastic that the moorings have gone to all the expense of this awesome live recording set up, but at 100 a track, it would be tragically under used.

I think you should look at charging for the recording itself, and have some stipulation that if the quality of the production doesn't suit The Moorings then the recording shall be returned and money refunded with no possibility of releasing it.

It is totally understandable, but with a price so high for one song - there must be another way!![/quote']

So true this is an amazing oppertunity for heaps of bands in aberdeen and could make the moorings the most sought after place to play in aberdeen but not at that price.

[Monk Rocker]

100 a song? Surely a typo?

[MTA]

Ok chaps Lets clear up a few things.

100 would be a minimum not per track (but to do one track only it would) this is down to it being the hardest getting all the eq's etc sorted. Other tracks after would be on a per hour or set fee depending on what the band want.

If you want me to put more production into it im sure we could sort out what is best for you.

The Band will chose what track's they want to do (but this does not apply in the case of free of charge promo work).

The bands tell me what they want out of the mix.

We are here to do the best job for the band and the quality will be as good as any studio in Aberdeen, and you also get a great gig on the night..

Please keep the suggestions going.

Thanks Mark (MTA)

[Flash@TMB]

Errr doubtless there are engineers out there willing to work for less. Mark charges 25 per hour, and has gold and platinum discs hanging on his wall. Washing machine repairmen charge a lot more than this LOL.

This is not intended to be a low cost or budget type service. In fact exactly the opposite. I's not about just letting you hear how you sounded or how well you played. There are very few venues with a high quality installed recording setup. This is about producing a trickle of truely great sounding live recordings. Hence the premiuim charges.

If anyone just wants to hear how it sounded then please bring along a minidisc recorder and a mic (please note that we do not permit stereo feeds to minidisc from the mixing desk). Sorry but we don't have time to export your tracks to DAT tape.

As an aside - solo accoustic tracks take substantially less time to produce. It takes ~4 hours to produce a band track and 30mins to produce a solo accoustic track, therefore it would cost approx 12 per each of Emma Foremans tracks.

So for the avoidance of doubt:

If anyone is interested in paying for a live recording, of a quality that compares favourably with commercial live releases, then contact MTA, and negotiate with him directly on the rate.