punk/metal war

[Guest Stripey]

Wrong again stripey. I am not the guy who wrote whatever you're on about. I do not play in a covers band. I am a session player and sound engineer. A real one. One who studied the art as an apprentice and who has a real studio and does real work as in making records.

And wrong again stripey. I have used cubase' date=' years ago. I now use logic and various other pro level sequencer and synth packages. In fact I have taught the use of such packages.

So how are a bedroom boy like you, playing at being a record producer, talk to me like that. And how dare you say you never sample and then go on to admit that you do. You are committing theft, boy and perhaps I should report you to MCPS!!!

No, there will be stripey/ibid record as I only work with people who know what they're doing.[/quote']

You used to post on here as Spook last year, you are the person I was thinking of. I recognise the rabid hate for anyone who dares to try and make modern music in their bedroom. Why don't you stick to playing your weak covers at "pubs, clubs and weddings" and leave us younger generation alone to get on with making real music, the way we want to.

[Guest Ibid]

You used to post on here as Spook last year' date=' you are the person I was thinking of. I recognise the rabid hate for anyone who dares to try and make modern music in their bedroom. Why don't you stick to playing your weak covers at "pubs, clubs and weddings" and leave us younger generation alone to get on with making real music, the way we want to.[/quote']

Wrong again Stripey. I don't know who you think I am but you are entirely wrong as usual.

And let me remind you, you are the one who comes on here and has a pop at guitar based music and punk and metal bands. You are the one with the closed mind and the insular, restrictive tastes. You are the one who refuses to ackowledge that there are other forms of music and you are the one who constantly claims to have re-invented the wheel.

And if you bothered to read any of the posts, you will find that I actually praised one of your tracks, I think it was the one about rules.

You are quite welcome to make what you call modern music in your bedroom, you are quite welcome to post it on here in a rather sad quest for approval. And you can rant on at me for as long as you like and you can accuse me of being whoever you like. It doesn't alter the fact that you are wrong, insular and are not a real sound engineer. We have qualifications, we work for it, we get examined by our peers and if our work isn't up to scratch we starve.

And if this spook of whom you speak, plays in a cover band at wedding, then he's good enough to do something you never will...play live for fair reward.

[Guest Stripey]

Wrong again Stripey. I don't know who you think I am but you are entirely wrong as usual.

And let me remind you' date=' you are the one who comes on here and has a pop at guitar based music and punk and metal bands. You are the one with the closed mind and the insular, restrictive tastes. You are the one who refuses to ackowledge that there are other forms of music and you are the one who constantly claims to have re-invented the wheel.

And if you bothered to read any of the posts, you will find that I actually praised one of your tracks, I think it was the one about rules.

You are quite welcome to make what you call modern music in your bedroom, you are quite welcome to post it on here in a rather sad quest for approval. And you can rant on at me for as long as you like and you can accuse me of being whoever you like. It doesn't alter the fact that you are wrong, insular and are not a real sound engineer. We have qualifications, we work for it, we get examined by our peers and if our work isn't up to scratch we starve.

And if this spook of whom you speak, plays in a cover band at wedding, then he's good enough to do something you never will...play live for fair reward.[/quote']

You can pretend all you like, but you are definately the same guy.

I don't have restrictive tastes atall, I listen to a huge variety of music, you would be surprised by whats in my collection. The reason I have a go at punk/metal is because it's kids music peddled by MTV and the charts.

I don't claim to be innovative atall or to have reinvented anything.

I don't post music on here for any reason other than to let people hear it bits and pieces of what I am doing, since its a local music scene site. I spend all day chatting with friends who are qualified sound engineers, people who teach sound engineering and production, and signed artists, from the UK, USA and Europe. Rest assured a huge amount of peer review and discussion goes on. I don't seek approval from anyone.

I don't give a toss about playing live and have no intention to. I've already had my club tracks played on live sets on internet radio stations, and in a club in san francisco.Just because I don't have a qualification in sound engineering doesn't mean I'm incompetent.

[Project S.A.M.]

Wrong again Stripey. I don't know who you think I am but you are entirely wrong as usual.

...

And if this spook of whom you speak' date=' plays in a cover band at wedding, then he's good enough to do something you never will...play live for fair reward.[/quote']

Spook

Ibid

The resemblance is uncanny. That there be two guys in the north east that post on this board (although Spook's activity ceased not long before Ibid's started), listing their occupation as musician/sound engineer, and their muscial talents as including guitar, banjo and mandolin, who ALSO make frequent reference to their qualifications in sound engineering and biology, almost beggars belief.

Anyway, most posts on this thread seem to suggest that their authors are a little unhinged. You guys are almost as scary as that kid who's obsessed with the Libertines.

[Guest Ibid]

I think we should just agree to disagree stripey. There's plenty room for all shades of opinion and all have their valid points.

Despite the interesting comparisons, I still don't know who the spook guy is. Whether you believe it or not is of no interest to me.

[Guest Stripey]

I think we should just agree to disagree stripey. There's plenty room for all shades of opinion and all have their valid points.

Despite the interesting comparisons' date=' I still don't know who the spook guy is. Whether you believe it or not is of no interest to me.[/quote']

HAhahaHAHAhaHAahAH. HAhaHAhahA.

So what's your studio called?

[Guest Ibid]

HAhahaHAHAhaHAahAH. HAhaHAhahA.

So what's your studio called?

sigh.

[ghost]

Instead of blaming each other for Aberdeen becoming a cultural backwater - which, by the way, I don't think for one second it is - why don't you PLEASE try and do something about it instead of attempting to score points by posting who you know or who you've recorded with. Do something positive, or take it outside!

[Guest Ibid]

Instead of blaming each other for Aberdeen becoming a cultural backwater - which' date=' by the way, I don't think for one second it is - why don't you PLEASE try and do something about it instead of attempting to score points by posting who you know or who you've recorded with. Do something positive, or take it outside![/quote']

Hear hear!!! Nuff said on the subject.

[Mouse]

The reason I have a go at punk/metal is because it's kids music peddled by MTV and the charts.

Of course your gonna hate it if you just follow MTV & the charts, i.e. where most shite music lies with a few exceptions

[Guest allsystemsfail]

The reason I have a go at punk/metal is because it's kids music peddled by MTV and the charts.

It is ridiculous to criticize both punk and metal on this basis alone. Sure, the music media do indeed feature punk and metal acts, but only those who have sought mainstream success. Such acts are not illustrative of both genres. Punk is not only Blink, Green Day, or NFG, but is far more wide ranging.

[Guest pop-notmyface]

thats it, you really HAD to ask for it.............

[Guest pop-notmyface]

i warned you

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

About 90% of my record collection comes under the "punk" umbrella, and that ranges from '77 style, early 80's killer Finnish and Swedish bands, the AMAZING Japanese stuff from the mid 80's to present day and the extremely brutal stuff like Fear of God. I don't give a flying fuck about talent or ability, I'm living proof that you don't need either to be in a band and the beauty of punk was that it tried to break down these elitist barriers. What puts me off metal as a genre is the macho, sexist aspect inherent in some (only SOME) bands. For example, Kreator's "Terrible Certainty" LP had a line on the thanks list that read "No thanks to gays and faggots for spreading AIDS" and I don't remember Kerrang! or Metal Forces calling them on this shit. That said, I still love the 80's thrash bands and can't bring myself to part with those old LP's. Bottom line is, I love my music and couldn't care less who likes it or not.

[Alex]

Although I totally agree with stripey about the question of skill in electronica production, I disagree with the stance that you have to break away from the music of past generations. I'm sure you could argue with the fact that using a funk beat in the 70's, used by eric B in '90, and constantly used by electronic artists isn't exactly breaking new boundaries. I think that anything that pushes the envelope of music, not just technology has to be good, but it's egotistical to think that musical creativity hasn't been going on in past generations and to turn your back on what they did, as even rejecting this material or breaking it down is a reaction and evolution of the same creative thread. Excuse me, I've gone a bit Mikey Subsist.

[Guest Stripey]

Although I totally agree with stripey about the question of skill in electronica production' date=' I disagree with the stance that you have to break away from the music of past generations. I'm sure you could argue with the fact that using a funk beat in the 70's, used by eric B in '90, and constantly used by electronic artists isn't exactly breaking new boundaries. I think that anything that pushes the envelope of music, not just technology has to be good, but it's egotistical to think that musical creativity hasn't been going on in past generations and to turn your back on what they did, as even rejecting this material or breaking it down is a reaction and evolution of the same creative thread. Excuse me, I've gone a bit Mikey Subsist.[/quote']

I know musical creativity has gone on in previous generations naturally, I'm not suggesting ignoring all that, but rather that we should be creating stuff for our own generation, instead of just consuming what the previous generation made and sustaining it. (i.e the whole punk/metal thing). I think its just something that has infected peoples minds in this day and age, the ethic of consumerism, rather than creativity....

[Alex]

I just think it's odd to classify a genre and then dismiss it, as that naturally blinds yourself to the fact that people are creating their own sounds in those genres. For instance, metal keeps diversifying and changing, from bands taking on prog influences like opeth, heavy bands like pig destroyer and burnt by the sun, and more electronic orientated bands like the kidney thieves. I'd find it pretty hard to draw the line under metal and dismiss these bands as being unoriginal. As far as punk goes, I'd say that Atari Teenage Riot are totally punk, just evolving it. Obviously there are going to be less inspiring artists, but that's not limited to specific genres, it's just as possible to be uninspired with a copy of cubase as it is a guitar. There are enough crap amen breaks out there to prove this.

[Guest Stripey]

I just think it's odd to classify a genre and then dismiss it' date=' as that naturally blinds yourself to the fact that people are creating their own sounds in those genres. For instance, metal keeps diversifying and changing, from bands taking on prog influences like opeth, heavy bands like pig destroyer and burnt by the sun, and more electronic orientated bands like the kidney thieves. I'd find it pretty hard to draw the line under metal and dismiss these bands as being unoriginal. As far as punk goes, I'd say that Atari Teenage Riot are totally punk, just evolving it. Obviously there are going to be less inspiring artists, but that's not limited to specific genres, it's just as possible to be uninspired with a copy of cubase as it is a guitar. There are enough crap amen breaks out there to prove this.[/quote']

Of course, people are still creating new stuff in Classical orchestra, folk music, whatever genre, but its pushing it to say that these are the sounds of this generation. Fair enough if someone wants to work in the genre of bavarian folk music or something, but its more like historical intetrest rather than embracing the genre's of the mid to late 90's and the 21st century. Our parents were the generation who created punk and rock, and my point is that this generation ought to be doing something for themselves aswell.

BTW atari teenage riot, one of their tracks has the worst use of an Amen i've ever heard

[Alex]

I think it's the concept that music "needs" to reinvent itself or revolutionise itself every generation instead of acknowledging the influences and continuation of creativity. Another thing that annoys me is the concept of generations. How do you define a generation? By their age and the period of being creatively active? Because this doesn't take place during a single musical cycle. When can you judge that a generation of music is over, closed and should never be revisited? Also, how can you take the responsibility of deciding what derivation of music best embodies the current generation. I'm sure people in a different culture have different ideas about that.

[Guest Ibid]

While I agree with stripey in his search for new music and his desire to stretch the boundaries, I think generationising music is not inclusive. There are plenty of artists from the 50's and 60's still writing music, and still pushing the boundaries and who's to say that they won't be the ones to come up with the next big thing. It isn't mandatory that the next huge musical leap will come from a 14 year old who got cubase for his birthday, although they have just as much chance as anyone else.

Stripey and I have disagreed and misunderstood each other on this topic but I think we agree that greater access to musical production through better technology will result in a lot more original music appearing. Granted, a lot of it won't be that good, but there surely will be some gems amongst it.

Musical tastes, in the general public seem to be leaning more and more towards stripped down accoustic tracks with simplicity and tunefulness being the key. This may be due to the fact that middle aged people are now the main record buyers, which may in turn be due to the rise in internet based music attracting the younger generation (and the price of CDs being a rip off).

[Guest Stripey]

Musical tastes' date=' in the general public seem to be leaning more and more towards stripped down accoustic tracks with simplicity and tunefulness being the key. This may be due to the fact that middle aged people are now the main record buyers, which may in turn be due to the rise in internet based music attracting the younger generation (and the price of CDs being a rip off).[/quote']

Are you saying that the general public are all middle-aged? Where do you get the idea that everyone wants "stripped down acoustic tracks with simplicity and tunefulness" from? I don't know how old you are exactly, but given that you have a 13 year old daughter I think its safe to say that you probably have very little understanding of the music young people are listening to and the context they are listening to it in. You always refer to my tracks as "soundscapes", I think this just goes to show that you don't realise that the paradigm of traditional "pop" structures is dead, in the age of 6-8 minute club 12"'s. I know aberdeen has a "rock/punk/metal" scene but rest assured, it is a minority group. I don't want to start another argument, but I just think you, and a lot of people on this forum, are out of touch with reality.

[Alan Cynic]

According to some of the more cutting-edge music press (eg the Wire etc) the REAL exciting, new stuff is bizarre takes on folk music from Northern Europe!

How about a Folk vs Jazz war, just for a change????

[Alan Cynic]

.....and anyway this argument is supposed to be about Punk vs Metal, not retro guitar-vs slightly less retro samplers!

[Lawy Lawson:Attorney]

Just a thought regarding the idea of sampling being "unoriginal".

Surely the level of originality depends HOW the sample is used in the new track? For example, we wouldn't call a movie that knowingly homages another unoriginal if the context and intent of the original work was changed would we? Or do we snap at authors who use snippets from others to preface their work?

[Alan Cynic]

Just a thought regarding the idea of sampling being "unoriginal".

Surely the level of originality depends HOW the sample is used in the new track? For example' date=' we wouldn't call a movie that knowingly homages another unoriginal if the context and intent of the original work was changed would we? Or do we snap at authors who use snippets from others to preface their work?[/quote']

Sampling can be original....guitar playing can be original....nose flute playing can be original.....as stated earlier they're all tools to be used in an original way or abused in a copyist fashion, depending on the creativity (NOT the musical ability) of the user.

(John Cromar playing the guitar with vibrating toothbrushes etc seems original to me, although some of you out there will no doubt know of a 1950s Peruvian composer who originated the idea!) Eugene Chadbourne playing an amplified garden rake is original! However I'm not saying all music MUST push back the boundaries, but surely any creative person wants to make their music their own way....not copy old bands (or less old synth bands).