Mouse Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Interested article here...http://www.geocities.com/ukguitaristring/over_the_limit.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 I agree with that article, I do think the mix in some recent recordings are dodgy, who even needs to metion St Anger?One of my quietest CDs is Rust in Peace by Megadeth. Amazing sound quality though. I would rather have a quiet recording and ace sound quality than a loud CD and shit quality, if its too quiet I use what is known as a volume button!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 I noticed that with St Anger & Dance Of Death. Production has seemed to change for the worse. I have Vapor Trails on MP3 and although I find it listenable, it's distorted as hell. Apparently the vinyl is ment to be a million times better (well obviously!). All older Rush releases have brilliant production, certainly for their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Who fucked up Dance of Death production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 I was reading on the Iron Maiden board it was EMI themselves. I found the link in this thread http://www.ironmaiden.org/bb/showthread.php?threadid=87425&perpage=15&highlight=banned&pagenumber=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Interesting.... I'm playing Vapor Trails just now on Winamp, and the meter is showing a heck of a lot of peaks just like the article. Now I played some tracks of Rush's Roll The Bones album (1991) and they don't hit the peaks at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rass Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 what the hell is wrong with Dance of Death? you guys heard Virtual XI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 DOD ain't the worst offender, it certainly is a little distorted. Seventh Son production made slightly heavier would be perfect imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 I always find this with really anticipated new new albums, that the songs are good, but produced in such a modern compressed way: Pantera - Reinventing the Steel is all i can think of just now, the guitar sound is really annoying and abrasive, doesnt compare with CFH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by hog dev fucker:I agree with that article, I do think the mix in some recent recordings are dodgy, who even needs to metion St Anger? It is an excellent article, but St Anger sounds pish because Large Oilrig is a twat. There's a good interview with him in this month's Rhythm Magazine where he says "one day I forgot to turn the snare on...at the playbacks I decided I really liked what I was hearing- it had a different ambience. It sang back to me in a beautiful way"First album I did was mastered pretty quietly, which at the time we weren't sure about, but it was probably better that way. Gives it room to breathe, and as you say, there's always a volume button.A good lesson in not letting the men in suits dictate how you sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betamax Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 The article rightly points out the dangers of extreme mastering to compensate for digital peaks, but they forget to mention that by using a bit of gentle compression during the actual recording process they can virtually cure the problem of extreme peaks before it happens....especially on the vocals and the drums (the two things with the most dynamics). Its symptomatic of a recording industry that is in a bad way. For years the labels have starved the studios of cash, preferring to spend the budget on marketing as opposed to the actual recordings. Image over content. (refer to this and every weeks top 40)The studios are under pressure to take short cuts and there is a lack of qualified professionals working in the recording studios cos theres no money in it anymore. Something like 2 thirds of recording studios in the UK have gone bust in the last 20 years. Its not because of home recording either....how many home recorded albums sell 2 million copies. Not many. Its all down to a music industrly thats ran by fat lazy marketing fuckers who are clueless about the music and its creation. There will never be another ''Never mind the Bollocks'' because the industry would never cough up for the studio bill. But the video would cost as much as the Matrix Trilogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 The music industry is a fucking disgrace. All the bands in the charts really make as much music as Microsoft make underwear. People don't seem to care for talent either or decent production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ibid Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Sound engineers are not really being trained properly these days. It took me three years of cutting, editing and making the fucking tea before my wonderful mentor would let me near a commercial mix. Betamax is right when he says few people are compressing during recording. This is the time to get it right not on mixdown. There seems to be a competition between engineers of a certain type, eg, those who have only ever used digital equipment and bedroom engineers, to produce the loudest CD. All they are doing are normalising their tracks to a peak of 0dB with a multiband compressor thus taking away all the dynamic range of a track leaving it sounding like shite. Home recording is having an impact on studios too. Most of these people don't know the first thing about making a record. It's fine to home record your own bands' stuff. It's not fine to charge 10 per hour to record a load of muddy, sonically challenged shite. I've had bands bring recordings to me that have been so fucked up by these so called sound engineers that it's almost impossible to put right without starting from scratch.Remember, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Having said that, monkeys would never fuck up a recording that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tav Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 St Anger isn't badly produced it's just a bit different from the norm. If it had a different snare sound and people were not used to Metallicas usual production then it may have gone down better...that style of production could suit an number of different bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Caz Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 i think the production on st anger is good its just the music that sucks on it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Remember Tav, it isn't really the production that is wrong as explained in the article. Though in the case of Bob Cock () it may be a factor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by Mouse:Remember Tav, it isn't really the production that is wrong as explained in the article. But not in the thread title referring to the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Droid Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Quite a good interview with the man who mixed 'Master Of Puppets' here:http://www.metal-sludge.com/20QuestionsWagener.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Originally posted by soundian:But not in the thread title referring to the article. My bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplefrodo Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 the way i see it is that the major record labels belive it is to cut back on production costs in order to put more money into merchandising and markeing. This is because usually they have no intention of releasing more than one album from any particular band, so they don't give a shit if the album sounds like poo cos they can them blame it on the band and dump them. Their view is that there are so many expendable bands out there they can keep on doing this and get away with it. I read an interview with Tom Morrello wher he said that the majority of contracts offered by the major record labels go like this:-band gets ten pounds for every hundred made-band gets 100,000 to make record.They then expect to get their hundred grand back meaning a band has to sell like 500,000 records just to pay the label back half of what they owe them. The record industry is truly fucked that's why we need to boycott major labels by only buying independant. It may hurt bands who are signed onto major labels in the short term, but in the long run will result in a better deal for the majority.-------------------------------------------------------------------------Join the fight:www.downhillbattle.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse Posted April 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Damn right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Maybe its just the music you're listening to (not meaning that in a nasty way or anything!) as I can't think of any new albums I've bought and thought the production was bad. Also what you might think is bad production is maybe the sound the band were wanting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 to be honest...i think that production is getting better and better on newer albums...of course the odd one is gonna sound shit but generally you have to admit its getting crisper and clearer and louder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by Graham:Maybe its just the music you're listening to (not meaning that in a nasty way or anything!) as I can't think of any new albums I've bought and thought the production was bad. Also what you might think is bad production is maybe the sound the band were wanting. Read the damn thread. It could be the music. Rock relies on taking things to extremes and this is where the problem lies, dynamic range. The only way to get a recording louder in the digital domain once it's normalised is to cut or 'squash' the loudest parts, which fucks with the dynamics and transients. Finally, if half the bands I hear honestly want to sound like they do the laws on firearms should be extended to include musical instruments. Or slackened so engineers can have shotguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ibid Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Well said that man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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