cultural bias in education system?

[Ollie]

discuss..

[Sue Denim..]

No. Write your own Sociology report.

[Ollie]

......

[RossP]

Absolutely non-existant.

Read the National Educational Priorities on Inclusion, which can be found on www.ltscotland.org.uk

[threeornothing]

Maybe give us a bit more of a hint as to what you're on about!

[Ollie]

Absolutely non-existant.

Read the National Educational Priorities on Inclusion' date=' which can be found on [url']www.ltscotland.org.uk

Personally i agree with you, well as far as scotland is concerned anyway. But there is an argument that the education system has a degree of m/c bias

[RossP]

Personally i agree with you' date=' well as far as scotland is concerned anyway. But there is an argument that the education system has a degree of m/c bias[/quote']

There is an argument for an unconscious bias, and unreported bias in the education system. But if there are a few cases, i doubt you'll be able to find any on the net or in newspapers etc.

The only thing that springs to mind is that newspaper report recently, about the muslim girl who was not allowed to wear her head dress. Note: I don't know exactly the whole story, and i don't know what the head dress is officially called. Just that the story might be relevant

[RossP]

I don't know if it is or isn't, hence why i said it -might- be relevant.

[Guest MKII]

I don't know if it is or isn't' date=' hence why i said it -might- be relevant.[/quote']

Hah, I deleted my comment.

[threeornothing]

"Religous ignorance" is an oxymoron...

That said I was watching some program last night about these crazy guys who summon the powers of their "god" for strength....I'd probably be religious if that shit was taught over here. Climbing a ladder of blades, sprinting across burning coal and acting as a human tow bar between cars is far more interesting than bowing your head and praying or wearing a head scarf!!

[Larsen B]

"Religous ignorance" is an oxymoron...

That said I was watching some program last night about these crazy guys who summon the powers of their "god" for strength....I'd probably be religious if that shit was taught over here. Climbing a ladder of blades' date=' sprinting across burning coal and acting as a human tow bar between cars is far more interesting than bowing your head and praying or wearing a head scarf!![/quote']

It's really not an oxymoron at all actually.

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

The only thing that springs to mind is that newspaper report recently' date=' about the muslim girl who was not allowed to wear her head dress. Note: I don't know exactly the whole story, and i don't know what the head dress is officially called. Just that the story might be relevant[/quote']

It's officially called the "hijab".

[salsadecacahuete]

don't think it's so much about culture... more to do with money. because better teachers can demand better pay and so teach kids who can afford it (and who are usually less deserving) but meh, life's not fair.

[Sam 45]

I had a talk in SE from a hardcore Christian the other day. He said everyone in the class of 40 kids was going to hell bar 1. We just figured that he must struggle to make friends.

[Cloud]

I had a talk in SE from a hardcore Christian the other day. He said everyone in the class of 40 kids was going to hell bar 1. We just figured that he must struggle to make friends.

did you laugh at him?

[Sam 45]

did you laugh at him?

We just kinda sat there going wtf. I've never had a talk in school about any other religion than christinaity. I've also been force to attend christian services ect and disciplined for not singing hymns (sp?).

[Sue Denim..]

I had a talk in SE from a hardcore Christian the other day. He said everyone in the class of 40 kids was going to hell bar 1. We just figured that he must struggle to make friends.

You could always remind him that Norman Kembers job is up for grabs and wish him all the best.

[Hog]

We just kinda sat there going wtf. I've never had a talk in school about any other religion than christinaity. I've also been force to attend christian services ect and disciplined for not singing hymns (sp?).

And now all the talk and press coverage is to do with Islam. A few years ago it was hardly mentioned.

[connie]

What does this question mean?

As in universities being keen to avoid accepting private school pupils, purely because everyone gets so het up about it?

[Ollie]

What does this question mean?

As in universities being keen to avoid accepting private school pupils' date=' purely because everyone gets so het up about it?[/quote']

From Wikipedia -

Bourdieu's theory of power and practice

'Bourdieu shared Weber's view that society, contrary to traditional Marxism, cannot be analyzed simply in terms of economic classes and ideologies. Much of his work concerns the independent role of educational and cultural factors. Instead of analyzing societies in terms of classes, Bourdieu uses the concept of field: a social arena in which people manoeuvre and struggle in pursuit of desirable resources. A field is a system of social positions, structured internally in terms of power relationships. Different fields can be quite autonomous and more complex societies have more fields.

In his theoretical writings, Bourdieu employs the terminology of economics to analyze the process of social reproduction, of how social and linguistic capital tend to transfer from one generation to the next. For Bourdieu, education represents the paradigmatic example of this process. Educational success, according to Bourdieu, entails a whole range of cultural behaviors, extending to ostensibly non-academic features like gait or accent. Privileged children have learned this behaviour, as have their teachers. Children of unprivileged backgrounds have not. The children of privilege fit into the world of educational expectations with apparent 'ease'. The unprivileged are found to be 'difficult', to present 'challenges'. Yet both behave as their upbringing dictates. Bourdieu regards this 'ease', or 'natural' ability as in fact the product of a great social labour on the part of the parents. It equips their children with the dispositions of manner as well as thought which ensure they are able to succeed within the educational system and can then reproduce their class position in the wider social system.

Bourdieu sees the legitimation of cultural capital as crucial to its effectiveness as a source of power. It is seen as symbolic violence, violence which is exercised upon a social agent with his or her complicity. What this means is that people come to experience systems of meaning (culture) as legitimate; there is a process of misunderstanding or misrecognition of what is really going on. So it comes that working class children see it as legitimate that their middle-class peers have more success in the educational system as based on their objective performance. A key part of this process is the transformation of people's cultural habits or economic positions into symbolic capital that has legitimacy and is seen as real. Symbolic capital is nothing more than economic or cultural capital which is acknowledged and recognized and then tends to reinforce the power relations which constitute the structure of social space.

Habitus can be defined as a system of dispositions: durably acquired schemes of perception, thought and action, engendered by objective conditions but tending to persist even after an alteration of those conditions. Bourdieu sees habitus as the key to reproduction because it is what actually generates the regular practices that make up social life. It is the product of social conditioning and so links actual behavior to class structure.

Bourdieu insists on the importance of a reflexive sociology in which sociologists must at all times conduct their research with conscious attention to the effects of their own position, and in particular their own set of internalized structures.

Bourdieu's sociology in general can be characterized as an investigation of the pre-reflexive conditions that generate certain beliefs and practices that are generated in capitalist systems.'

I was just asking whethar or not people agreed with his concept?

[bryn]

From Wikipedia -

Bourdieu's theory of power and practice

'Bourdieu shared Weber's view that society' date=' contrary to traditional Marxism, cannot be analyzed simply in terms of economic classes and ideologies. Much of his work concerns the independent role of educational and cultural factors. Instead of analyzing societies in terms of classes, Bourdieu uses the concept of field: a social arena in which people manoeuvre and struggle in pursuit of desirable resources. A field is a system of social positions, structured internally in terms of power relationships. Different fields can be quite autonomous and more complex societies have more fields.

In his theoretical writings, Bourdieu employs the terminology of economics to analyze the process of social reproduction, of how social and linguistic capital tend to transfer from one generation to the next. For Bourdieu, education represents the paradigmatic example of this process. Educational success, according to Bourdieu, entails a whole range of cultural behaviors, extending to ostensibly non-academic features like gait or accent. Privileged children have learned this behaviour, as have their teachers. Children of unprivileged backgrounds have not. The children of privilege fit into the world of educational expectations with apparent 'ease'. The unprivileged are found to be 'difficult', to present 'challenges'. Yet both behave as their upbringing dictates. Bourdieu regards this 'ease', or 'natural' ability as in fact the product of a great social labour on the part of the parents. It equips their children with the dispositions of manner as well as thought which ensure they are able to succeed within the educational system and can then reproduce their class position in the wider social system.

Bourdieu sees the legitimation of cultural capital as crucial to its effectiveness as a source of power. It is seen as symbolic violence, violence which is exercised upon a social agent with his or her complicity. What this means is that people come to experience systems of meaning (culture) as legitimate; there is a process of misunderstanding or misrecognition of what is really going on. So it comes that working class children see it as legitimate that their middle-class peers have more success in the educational system as based on their objective performance. A key part of this process is the transformation of people's cultural habits or economic positions into symbolic capital that has legitimacy and is seen as real. Symbolic capital is nothing more than economic or cultural capital which is acknowledged and recognized and then tends to reinforce the power relations which constitute the structure of social space.

Habitus can be defined as a system of dispositions: durably acquired schemes of perception, thought and action, engendered by objective conditions but tending to persist even after an alteration of those conditions. Bourdieu sees habitus as the key to reproduction because it is what actually generates the regular practices that make up social life. It is the product of social conditioning and so links actual behavior to class structure.

Bourdieu insists on the importance of a reflexive sociology in which sociologists must at all times conduct their research with conscious attention to the effects of their own position, and in particular their own set of internalized structures.

Bourdieu's sociology in general can be characterized as an investigation of the pre-reflexive conditions that generate certain beliefs and practices that are generated in capitalist systems.'

I was just asking whethar or not people agreed with his concept?[/quote']

Do you have an opinion yourself? Have you researched it at all? The chances of finding a decent argument on this subject are non-existent on this site.. o_O

[Ollie]

Do you have an opinion yourself? Have you researched it at all? The chances of finding a decent argument on this subject are non-existent on this site.. o_O

Yes bryn, i study Ma sociology (honours) at the University of Aberdeen, one of the leading places to study for this subject.

[bryn]

Yes bryn' date=' i study Ma sociology (honours) at the University of Aberdeen, one of the leading places to study for this subject.[/quote']

Ah, University you say?? fancy stuff eh.. Trying to start an essay is it? How long? got research to do I bet. Should probably get off wikipedia and down the library I'll say, gota fill that bibliography and all..

[salsadecacahuete]

Yes bryn' date=' i study Ma sociology (honours) at the University of Aberdeen, one of the leading places to study for this subject.[/quote']

what year are you in then? i'm in fourth and i can guarantee that only in first year would people get away with throwing about wikipedia quotes as their own.. serisouly, what are your thoughts on the matter? quoted from you....

Edit- No, I can't end it there.. how utterly pretentious of you. someone asking you what your question means and you copy and paste that ? you should realise that it might seem pretty clear to someone who's studying the subject but a teeny bit of explanation might be a bit more helpful.. i mean, have you heard anyone NOT taking sociology casually drop into conversation the notion of social, economic or cultural capital and how it affects their lives??

my opinion---> people who have more capital (they have a good social standing, they're well off, they have friends in high places.) get better opportunities because they have grown up understanding the capital and behaviour of those who are grown up, and well off, etc., so fitting in with them is easier.. SO, they are more likely to become the future well-off. and that applies to everything, not just education, though it is an obvious starting point.

but then again you could argue that my boss is a scabby prick and because he's grown up slumming it and my daddy's rich, i don't get a payrise because i'm not into 'fitba' and watching phone porn...... so i lose out there.

Edit#2- Sorry, I'm stressed about my dissertation. Thankfully, it's for English, not sociology, which, quite frankly, is one of the most depressing subjects I have had the misfortune of studying...

[bryn]

Yes bryn' date=' i study Ma sociology (honours) at the University of Aberdeen, one of the leading places to study for this subject..[/quote']

I feel that a reply such as this above combined with the initial concept of shamelessly posting relatively advanced topics on the wasteland - essentially creating a useless thread intended to sponge off of anyone on here who may be informed (lethargy? stupidity?) - de-values the whole education selection process that many work hard to meet.

The more and more I read the above quote the funnier it gets. Its like I'm at a party and theres a fit girl who also happens to be a complete bitch and she's trying to convince you she's not an idiot. She reels this line off then walks away shaking her tight arse and really believing she 'got one' on you and proved her worth with her trying-hard-not-to-sound-bitchy retort.