Milltimber to be crushed under tonnes of Tarmac

[lepeep]

one more...sorry...this is getting silly....

"but it would have absolutely zero benefit for people who don't even want to go into Aberdeen, but rather bypass it. "

can you just tell me what argument you are fighting ?

now, is it :

By pass, because it will help the Rush Hour Traffic, by Diverting all the trafiic AROUND aberdeen (people in rush hour, usually are HEADING INTO ABERDEEN, NOT AROUND IT)

or

A by Pass, because it will help take more cars INTO aberdeen, more efficiently than a decent bus system?

quote away Cloudy...

[Cloud]

Wasn't your idea to post disabled people off into the mountains? To let all the special people be special together out of everyone's way? Total bollocks. Isolate people like that and you exclude them.

Plus' date=' lots of people who are not camphill residents benefit from their facilities - work placements and such. Throw camphill into the countryside and you make the site inaccessible to non-residents who use the site.[/quote']

I think residential places such as Camphill are a disgrace on society as it is - why shouldn't people there be integrated in mainstream society? Fair enough, mainstream society may struggle to cope to begin with, but surely everyone is born equal?

Personally, the thought of putting them all together in one campus is horrific to me.

As for putting them in the mountains - well, if such a place is going to exist, it would be far better existing in a place where they're not going to get disturbed with nasty housing developments all around or where there'll be lots of nasty cars. Camphill and Newton Dee will be surrounded with housing in years to come - and of course then, huge amounts of pressure will be placed upon them to accept a huge amount of money for the land and to relocate elsewhere.

Call me cynical, but I don't think placing people in residential care does anything but shut them away from the world, regardless of location. How will people ever grow up to be tolerant of others if they are never exposed to them?

I'm going to take the Camphill argument into another thread.

And lepeep, what arguement is there to fight? The bypass is critical for Aberdeen, not only will it remove a massive amount of cars going through the city, but it'll also help people getting to work.

The only argument is over just how much money should be spent on public transport versus catering for private individuals.

And you're right, this is getting silly :

(people in rush hour, usually are HEADING INTO ABERDEEN, NOT AROUND IT)

What? A lot of people work in places like Dyce, Bridge of Don, Altens, etc. A bypass will ease their commute considerably - Cove to Dyce will take about 20 minutes with the bypass, versus something like 45 minutes in a car at the minute. Getting a bus from Cove to Dyce isn't even worth thinking about.

Anyway, the bypass will not only make life easier for people to bypass the city centre (or even the Outer Ring Road), but it'll also make life easier for people to access the part of the city centre that they want to get to.

[Guest MKII]

I think residential places such as Camphill are a disgrace on society as it is - why shouldn't people there be integrated in mainstream society? Fair enough' date=' mainstream society may struggle to cope to begin with, but surely everyone is born equal?

Personally, the thought of putting them all together in one campus is horrific to me.

And you're right, this is getting silly :

.[/quote']

You truly are a fucking idiot!

[lepeep]

from the plans I've seen, the bypass will help no one going to Tullos (one of the most busy places in the morning), and as for the dyce side, I'd say it'll do nothing more than what the upgraded A96 is already doing...feeding two lanes of traffic into one tiny town road. (BP in Dyce?)...

this road has fuck all to do with helping congestion, if anything more "feeder roads" would have to be build off the main by pass, and I'd imagine that they'd have fly offs / off ramps for about 500 yards, and that's it, back onto the old road system...so, I'm still going to have to disagree with your rosey view that more roads = less traffic.

now, if someone in auchngat worked in Dyce, and someone in OldMeldrum worked in Stonehaven, I think you might be onto something there..

quotey quote quote......

"...but it'll also make life easier for people to access the part of the city centre that they want to get to."

methinks someone has been playing grand theft auto or some other such crazy game that you can just drive off a road at any point in time.

how the fuck will a big dual carriage way 5 miles west of aberdeen "make life easier for people to access the part of the city centre that they want to get to"....

I just don't understand how you think that this road, connecting to all the already wee and shitty, short, roundabout riddled, congested roads will help people get into town quicker ?

[Cloud]

You truly are a fucking idiot!

Hmm' date=' this is a discussion board.

A message board for discussion.

I'm not really sure how to spell it out otherwise, though...

T h i s (space) i s (space) a (space) d i s c u s s i o n (space) b o a r d (full stop)

discussion Audio pronunciation of "discussion" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-skshn)

n.

1. Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.

2. A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition.

or even..

n 1: an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic; "the book contains an excellent discussion of modal logic"; "his treatment of the race question is badly biased" [syn: treatment, discourse'] 2: an exchange of views on some topic; "we had a good discussion"; "we had a word or two about it" [syn: give-and-take, word]

Got it?

Now, let's have some discussion instead of idiotic insults.

[Guest MKII]

Now' date=' let's have some discussion instead of idiotic insults.[/quote']

This hasn't been a discussion, it's been you questioning your own rambling points over and over with the occasional sop to other peoples posts.

Your bullshit is relentless!

Got it?

[Cloud]

from the plans I've seen' date=' the bypass will help no one going to Tullos (one of the most busy places in the morning), and as for the dyce side, I'd say it'll do nothing more than what the upgraded A96 is already doing...feeding two lanes of traffic into one tiny town road. (BP in Dyce?)...[/quote']

Why wouldn't it help people going from Tullos? For example....people from Westhill at the minute have to either traverse back roads, or touch the A90 at one point. The bypass on the other hand will feed traffic straight into Altens/Tullos, as it'll begin at the existing Charleston interchange near Cove. Traffic coming from the Bridge of Don can again just use the bypass as opposed to going all the way through the city centre, however, I think one critical missing part of the bypass will be a lack of a link from the Parkway to the bypass, something that was mooted a while back but seemingly hasn't came to fruition.

The Dyce side will come in at the other side of Kirkhill Industrial Estate, meaning that traffic from essentially any part of the Airport can jump onto the Bypass and head south (or north!) on the A90 without fuss, unlike at present where they have the negotiate god knows how many roundabouts or awful back roads.

What the bypass won't do is relieve the choke points heading into the docks - so hopefully some sense will be applied and lorries will be banned from using any approach other than the dual carriageway in from Altens, forcing them to use the bypass rather than city streets.

this road has fuck all to do with helping congestion, if anything more "feeder roads" would have to be build off the main by pass, and I'd imagine that they'd have fly offs / off ramps for about 500 yards, and that's it, back onto the old road system...so, I'm still going to have to disagree with your rosey view that more roads = less traffic.

That's part of the problem, the existing road system in the city can't cope. I hope the City Council has sense and sorts out the City Centre approaches now, rather than waiting for the bypass to be built before doing anything. As I've said before, the bypass tied in with clever public transport schemes could be a winner - but what's the bets that the junctions get choked up with idiotic shopping developments rather than public transport terminuses?

now, if someone in auchngat worked in Dyce, and someone in OldMeldrum worked in Stonehaven, I think you might be onto something there..

As they do. Inner city people won't benefit from the bypass at all - but hopefully the bypass will take enough traffic off the ring roads so that the existing roads will then become free flowing.

[Cloud]

This hasn't been a discussion' date=' it's been you questioning your own rambling points over and over with the occasional sop to other peoples posts. [/quote']

Aww, I'm sorry, oh high lord and master of all discussion

Your bullshit is relentless!

Again, Aww....would you like me to pick up your toys?

Got it?

I think we've got an underage user on the site!

[Guest MKII]

Aww' date=' I'm sorry, oh high lord and master of all discussion

Again, Aww....would you like me to pick up your toys?

I think we've got an underage user on the site![/quote']

Re-read this thread, pay particular attention to peoples reactions to your crap.

Has the penny dropped yet?

[Cloud]

Consider it stopped.

[Guest MerryChristmas]

Hahahah cloud posts crap....again

[Chris]

What? A lot of people work in places like Dyce' date=' Bridge of Don, Altens, etc. A bypass will ease their commute considerably - Cove to Dyce will take about 20 minutes with the bypass, versus something like 45 minutes in a car at the minute. Getting a bus from Cove to Dyce isn't even worth thinking about.

[/quote']

I work in BoD and live in Holburn. Every day I go to and from work on Anderson Drive and it takes me 20 mins. The traffic going the same way as me in the morning and at night is a fraction of the traffic that is going the other way. The queues going into the city in the morning and out at night are fucking horrendus compared to my route.

The only time I ever have any problems is when there's roadworks. Like 2 weeks ago. Lets fuck the bypass and just give the money to Stewart Milne and Scottish Water as long as they promise not to dig up the 2 direct routes I take to work (Anderson drive and union street) at the same fucking time!

[spellchecker]

I've got to say, I find that traffic discussion on a wider scale has been a hot topic of late, and I wonder if the discussion about the bypass is just the tip of the iceberg. I haven't done much reading on bypass proposals but i know the various cross-trunk points pretty well and it strikes me that there is one big problem, as other people have mentioned - the bypass doesn't take into consideration aberdeen's huge commuter community.

i tried to drive from my flat in the centre of town to my auntie's place out between hatton of fintray and kintore, probably about a 13 or 14 mile drive. i left at 4:15pm and arrived about 5:30pm. that's an average speed of about 11mph!!! I was stuck in a 25 minute jam leading to haudagain roundabout, and another 25 minute jam leading from BP in dyce out towards newmachar.

i sometimes wonder when the city/region traffic planners consider new improvements to the transport infrastructure, whether they actually stop to consider where people are commuting to and from. it could be generalised for most people who commute that there are only 2-3 practical, and significantly different routes for them to make their commute. for example, say i wanted to commute between westhill and altens, i could perhaps go:

1. all the way into town on the dual carriageway, down queens road or kings gate, and then choose a route to cross the river e.g. torry/queen mother bridge/duthie park/bridge of dee

2. take a back road either from kingswells or before that through carnie and culter, try and head for the bridge of dee and then onwards

either of those routes involve serious bottlenecks at peak times - namely the dual carriageway into town from westhill, but also - the river. every crossing of the river is overloaded at peak times.

that is just one example of a commute where traffic is busy, i'm sure everyone has their own experience, e.g. ellon/BOD into town, stonehaven/portlethen into town, newmachar in through dyce, etc.

however, the problem with ideas like the park and ride as they are implemented are that the buses have to travel along the same traffic soaked routes and bottlenecks - meaning that it isn't any easier, faster nor probably cheaper, to take the "traffic friendly" method.

i can't see that aberdeen will ever improve its traffic meltdown as it currently appears unless it takes a radically different approach. i think the aberdeen does need a bypass, but i also think it needs a comprehensive commuter system that makes it easy for people to get to work, on time, conveniently.

my ideal system would be this:

1. an underground metro system hubbed at the location of the proposed "union square" development near the harbour and the existing rail station

2. underground metro lines that extend from the hub

- to major commuter intake routes, e.g. BOD, Westhill, Inverurie, Portlethen (e.g. A90 traffic)?

- to major industrial centres (possible in a circle line), e.g. Kirkhill, Parkway, (BOD), Altens/Tullos, Bridge of Dee and some other Industrial Estates?

3. Suitable park and ride stations at the terminating point of each commuter line.

In all reality, it probably wouldn't be feasible to have a metro hub by the harbour because of the water level, but much higher locations are available centrally anyway (great use for mounthooly).

The problem about such ambitious plans is obviously cost. How can what would undoubtedly be a multi-billion pound project ever be feasible? Well, it isn't - in the short term. Surely however, with a 25-30 year outlook, and an aim to provide - with at least the underground system - an infrastructure that can financially maintain itself, the will to make it happen could exist? I guess the only way to do it would be with private investment.

another point is, how can we afford not to? everywhere you look, more houses are being built outwith city areas - predominantly along commuter routes. you could argue that the traffic infrastructure implentations of the last 20 years (e.g. making the A90 dual carriageway all the way south from Aberdeen, the A96 improvements, various road widenings throughout the city) have failed to deal with the increase in cars, population and commuting throughout surrounding and inner city aberdeen. whatever, considering the current rate of investment in property development, and the market's seemingly endless thirst to fuel it, it's hard to imagine that a bypass is going to do much to reduce this problem of commuting in the next 15 years.

The effect of commuter traffic can not be underestimated, just ask people how their commute to work changes when the school holidays start - and that is only a small subsection of the commuter make-up.

I'm sure a dedicated commuter transport system is the way to go - and I am sure an underground system is the best - albeit most expensive - way to do it, for the long term.