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Milltimber to be crushed under tonnes of Tarmac


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Typical, fucking typical...

milltimber residents don't give a flying fuck about the bypass, because it "seemed a dead cert" that the poor residentes of Camp Hill were going to get bulldozed, they (camphill) suddenly don't get a road through Murtle, and the Miltimber residents go" what they fuck?, it's coming our way?"...

says more about what they expected, than their willingness to help question the need / use / location of a road that probably won't help aberdeen A JOT.

Granted, there were many sponsors of the Camphill Plight (Larry Kintch) and his garden is going to get bulldozed, I feel sorry for this guy!

and, as an excuse for the "ill informed milltimbrians", the consultation process was non exsistant, and for the "new proposed rout", there has not been (to my knowledge) a consultation, so Undoubtedly, the new route will be very unlikely...finger crossed.

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The new route was basically a cop out by the Executive.

I had sympathies with the Camphill campaign, but I find it somewhat ironic that after the way he virtually demanded that everyone should support his campaign, Dr Geider's reaction to the fact houses will be bulldozed is almost a "shit happens" response, although he says it's a shame that they have to lose their houses.

I wonder if he'll start a campaign on their behalf?

Equally, there was significant potential for an alternative to the Murtle route to basically flatten Lin Moor School, which my mother used to work at and which deals with severely autistic children, and yet not a squeak of objection to that possible route from anyone, least of all Dr Geider.

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Actually' date=' they have every right to do so, using compulsory purchase orders.[/quote']

I don't see how they could justify such a move though.

"Get the fuck out 'cos we're building a road."

I seriously don't think the Scottish executive would get away with such a move, especially when there are other sites a bypass could be placed.

Like CAMPHILL.

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it's not always used for bulldozing houses though.

The compulsory purchase of land is one way in which councils, particularly in rural areas, are able to acquire land in order to put up affordable housing etc.

Frankly the current route is a cop-out because the Exec is too chicken to take the tough decision.

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i fail to see the benefits of building another road

but then i felt the same about 20 years ago when they started talking about it

its all a pile of shite

the only thing that will stop the traffic issues

is if people take serious inititives

like large companies enforcing car pooling and running buses perhaps..

as im fairly sure that the 1000s of people who work in dyce dont actually have to drive into work every day and gum up all the roads...

down with cars!

boo!

:gringo:

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I wonder if he'll start a campaign on their behalf?

QUOTE]

wow you make me mad, you have no idea what camphill is all about, why dont you go have a visit, i'll gladly give you a tour...really i will. Your comment on Linmoors 'severely autistic children', im sure thats true, but do you know that a lot of the kids at camphill are ones other places and schools found too challenging to take on, so they'll have severely autistic kids too, not to mention all the other typs of special needs, i would know what theyre like, i grew up in camphill.

and for your info, there is another camphill place in milltimber, which is the other half of murtle (both are residential schools), so im sure dr geider (who by the way is my mums colleague) is not happy about it being in milltimber either. But i guess they were just gonna do what they planned anyway. And not everyone in camphill was happy about the big campaign, because 10 years ago they had a chance to do it but didnt.

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wow you make me mad' date=' you have no idea what camphill is all about, why dont you go have a visit, i'll gladly give you a tour...really i will. Your comment on Linmoors 'severly autistic children', im sure thats true, but do you know that a lot of the kids at camphill are ones other places and schools found too challenging to take on, so they'll have severly autistic kids too, not to mention all the other typs of special needs, i would know what theyre like, i grew up in camphill.

[/quote']

You are in no position to assume what I do or do not know about Camphill thanks very much, and I did not say that the kids there were any less deserving of care or anything like it.

I've got plenty knowledge on the matter, having received briefing upon briefing from all sides, as well as letter upon letter from individual people, and we recently dealt with a parent who was trying to get funding to allow her to place her daughter in Camphill.

So do not assume I am ignorant to it or entirely unsympathetic toward the children.

I have always held the opinion that there should be mitigation introduced to avoid the potential for disrupting the community.

I read the comments of Dr Geider in the paper today, he says he's pleased with the result, no mention of disruption to the Milltimber Camphill.

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so you dont want that tour then, oh well the kids are on holiday anyway when im back, too bad.

Maybe i'm wrong, but your tone clearly indicated a mocking attitude towards dr geider, and he was representing camphill so therefore i saw it as you mocking camphill, which is what got me mad in the first place.

But since you know so much, i must have read it entirely wrong, and have to apologise for my hastful response.

I guess it probably wont disrupt camphill estate as much as it would have to murtle (ie isnt right beside it), i wouldnt know as im not in aberdeen and havnt seen/read the news so dont even know where this road will be, because they are essentially the same school just in two locations.

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Okay, a few things I want to say here.

Firstly, I don't think the route is a cop out at all - if you look at the final route, the addition of a road from Stonehaven to the bypass will take the traffic off the somewhat dangerous Stonehaven-Aberdeen stretch. The link wouldn't make sense if it was to tie in with the Camphill section, as it would have to stay closer to the existing A90 and therefore not be as much benefit as it could be for long distance through traffic.

Secondly, for the people who scream about new roads not being needed - what's the alternative? Kingswells Park and Ride has failed miserably, light rail costs an absolute fortune and can't even get the go ahead in Edinburgh, so there's no chance of it here. Don't even start on guided busways, they're ridiculously expensive and provide no benefit. Trolleybuses are still buses and are unlikely to have the "wow, cool" factor that light rail has. What else? And building those solutions doesn't get past the fact that the existing A90 is choked to death at several points and can't be easily upgraded without causing a lot of destruction - anyone want to assess the costs of building a flyover at the Haudagain Roundabout, making the Parkway in the Bridge of Don dual carriageway and the rest of it?

The bypass will take the traffic off a lot of dangerous back roads, such as the Kingswells-Bucksburn road, the Dyce-Balmedie road, etc. If that's a bad thing, then what actually is a good thing?

Now, the controversial point - Camphill. People jumped on the bandwagon for this, without realising the utter selfishness of the Camphill organisation to begin with. Why couldn't Camphill move out into the country, up in the mountains where the land is utterly worthless and where their quality of life is likely to be far higher than in the city centre? People complained about the "damage" done by them moving - was any scientific studies done to actually prove this, or was it a simple case of knowing that the more noise they made, the more concessions they were likely to extract from the Executive if the route was put through Camphill?

This quote from the SaveCamphill website makes me laugh.

Exacerbate the very complex medical and social problems of many residents, such as asthma, allergies and epileptic conditions.

Epileptic conditions are caused by traffic, are they? No wonder they succeeded in their mission when they were filling people with rubbish like that.

At the end of the day, the Milltimber section is the best place for the road to go - they might not like it, but where else can it go? Any section to the east wouldn't be able to incorporate the bypass of Newtonhill, Porthlethen, etc, and any section to the west would likely be too far out to be of much use to people that live in Aberdeen.

Edit : Mr Tv Tanned, your comment about "funding to place her child in Camphill". I'm not completely clued up on Camphill (I know about the people there, but not how it works), but personally, the fact it's private explains a hell of a lot to me.

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Cloud - camphill is not private, its a charity funded by the government, people have to get social work to fund them to go there as it is very very expensive, and social work do not much like children going to residential schools, as its cheaper to put them into mainstream education(im sure its not as simple as that), and while this may be of help to some, lots of people with special needs do not cope well, get ridiculed etc etc you'll have heard it all before.

The two camphill places situated in bieldisde and milltimber, well enter them and you wouldnt know you're near a city centre at all, theres lots of land, its spacious and beautiful, and your comment about camphill moving into the country, well thats just bloody ridiculous.

A guy called Karl Konig started up camphill based on the philosophies by Rudolf steiner over 50 years ago (why dont you google it), in the very place now known as camphill estate, murtle is an addition as it grew, camphill house is a beautiful house, with its own library started by mr konig, harbouring years of history of the place, and by the way Konig and his colleagues, were jews escaping from Austria i do believe, there are camphill places all over the world, INCLUDING ones in further away places.

Get a clue before you write such utter shit, please.' Utter selfishness' my ass, what they do there is help people, let the children reach their potential, through arts and crafts as well as an education suitable to their specific needs.

You're right, you're not clued up at all.

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The two camphill places situated in bieldisde and milltimber, well enter them and you wouldnt know you're near a city centre at all, theres lots of land, its spacious and beautiful, and your comment about camphill moving into the country, well thats just bloody ridiculous.

What's ridiculous about it? Oh wait...the fact that the land is worth an absolute fortune at Camphill and mountain land isn't worth very much? Don't try and convince me that there's not money behind all of this. Bieldside is a strange place, I've been there (and milltimber) many a time, and it has a strange quasi-rural feel about it, but at the end of the day, it's still in Aberdeen City.

But go on, I fail to see why moving the residents would be so bad - I've heard the argument that "it's the only life some of them have ever known" - well, shame on the parents for dumping them there.

A guy called Karl Konig started up camphill based on the philosophies by Rudolf steiner over 50 years ago (why dont you google it), in the very place now known as camphill estate, murtle is an addition as it grew, camphill house is a beautiful house, with its own library started by mr konig, harbouring years of history of the place, and by the way Konig and his colleagues, were jews escaping from Austria i do believe, there are camphill places all over the world, INCLUDING ones in further away places.

What has this got to do with the issue that Camphill could be moved? I'm familiar with Ruldolf Steiner's philosophies, and I think he had the right idea as far as encouraging creative minded people. But...why should the fact that Camphill was started by Jews stop someone from putting a bypass through it? I don't mean to be personal, but you're putting across the same attitude that most of the Save Camphill protesters had - focusing on pointless "facts" that have no relevance whatsoever.

Before I carry on, I hope I've made it clear that I think Camphill was a bad idea from an operational standpoint, and I dare say there was an element of "let's stick it to them" from some of the powers that be in pushing the Camphill section so much.

Get a clue before you write such utter shit, please.' Utter selfishness' my ass, what they do there is help people, let the children reach their potential, through arts and crafts as well as an education suitable to their specific needs.

You're right, you're not clued up at all.

So why can't they reach their potential in a far more spacious place in the mountains where they're never going to be disturbed with bypasses, new roads, etc? I can think of several places that would be incredibly suitable, far away from the stresses of city life. If Camphill was chosen, they could've phased the move in, with the Camphill section being built last so that the residents would've had time to move and adjust. But obviously, that would mean not getting a high price for the land - and like it or hate it, chances are that Camphill will become prime housing land in the future.

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Which is why you should have saved yourself the bother of posting about it.

If you're going to state an opinion' date=' best make it an informed one.[/quote']

What is there to be informed about?

If people really are so stupid that they don't realise the worth of Camphill's land, especially now that the Bypass is going to be out of sight, out of mind, but close enough to drive to within minutes from there, then they really need a wake up call.

I can't find anything on the Save Camphill site that conclusively states, with scientific (or even social scientific) proof that moving Camphill and Newton Dee would be a bad thing.

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But go on' date=' I fail to see why moving the residents would be so bad - I've heard the argument that "it's the only life some of them have ever known" - well, shame on the parents for dumping them there. [/quote']

Cloud, you're not doing your argument any favours with this sort of comment. Have you any idea at all how difficult it is for parents with severely handicapped children?

If they feel the best way to care for them is to place them in a residential set-up such as Camphill or Lin Moor, then they are doing it out of their love for their children, not some selfish "dumping" as you so crassly put it.

Many of us are fortunate enough not to have immediate family with severe disability, I for one would never criticise someone placing their child in Camphill or Lin Moor when I have no direct understanding of their circumstances.

The mother and father who came to us over funding to place their daughter in Camphill clearly loved their daughter very much, to suggest they were dumping her there is a grotesque misrepresentation.

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Cloud' date=' you're not doing your argument any favours with this sort of comment. Have you any idea at all how difficult it is for parents with severely handicapped children?

If they feel the best way to care for them is to place them in a residential set-up such as Camphill or Lin Moor, then they are doing it out of their love for their children, not some selfish "dumping" as you so crassly put it.

Many of us are fortunate enough not to have immediate family with severe disability, I for one would never criticise someone placing their child in Camphill or Lin Moor when I have no direct understanding of their circumstances.

The mother and father who came to us over funding to place their daughter in Camphill clearly loved their daughter very much, to suggest they were dumping her there is a grotesque misrepresentation.[/quote']

Perhaps, but what about the parents who do indeed "dump" their children, out of sight, out of mind? My aunt did some work for Camphill and Newton Dee a few years back, and saw first hand that some children (and young adults) were there and practically ignored by their parents. It's a harsh reality that some people will do it - which is why I dislike the whole concept of residental schools.

But yes, it's a personal opinion as far as the residental side of things go, but it's probably not relevant to this discussion anyway. I suppose I could tie it in though -

Let's assume someone has indeed been placed in Camphill and Newton Dee for 20 years. Can anyone find a study that shows that moving after 20 years would have a severe, long lasting, detrimental affect on the individual? I would be interested to read about it.

Edit : I have to go to work now, I was enjoying this thread :( I found some interesting stuff on the internet about the Camphill organisation too, it's pretty cool how an entire network of schools came about from just one in Aberdeen. The way of "paying" people is very interesting, and shows that the people teaching there must be some of the very best in the field before they would be able to handle that..

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