The Milner Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 After reading one of the most pathetic thread arguments on here yet i wanted to put the question to you people, what do you class as being more impressive, benig able to play very very fast or being able to play something far more complicated? Im not meaning just guitars as well i mean for any instrument.i think thats dogshit. people shouldnt be punished for being able to play fast. just because they are so much better than you are. if there were people out there who could play like them, they would. ask any guitarist. what, should they stop at a speed that noobs like you can keep up with, or push the boundaries of what can be done on the instrument. i think this is a load of shite as well, im not picking on anyone or anything but surely you can see this is crap. Why would someone who has no interest in shreading be in the slightest bit concerned about playing as fast as he can? you just seem to think that because these people play fast they are really good, but ive met guitarists who could rip a solo you couldnt think of yet struggle to play proper chords, does this make them better because they can play fast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b-bert Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 you are a brave man starting this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 .......Play for the song.Play what the song requires, no more no less!Happened to witness one Mr Jablonski ripping seven sheds of shit out of his guitar last week. He was playing cover versions that were unrecognisable due to the tweeeedledaddddleeeedoooooodletwaaaaaaang plink fuddle doing. Awful. Extremely talented chap but it was boring beyond... We left! Musicians masturbating with their chosen instrument is usually always a little crap! Time and a place and usually, for my taste, not in the middle of a song!speed shmeed skill shmillSONGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Play for the song.Play what the song requires' date=' no more no less!Happened to witness one Mr Jablonski ripping seven sheds of shit out of his guitar last week. He was playing cover versions that were unrecognisable due to the tweeeedledaddddleeeedoooooodletwaaaaaaang plink fuddle doing. Awful. Extremely talented chap but it was boring beyond... We left! Musicians masturbating with their chosen instrument is usually always a little crap! Time and a place and usually, for my taste, not in the middle of a song!speed shmeed skill shmillSONGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote'] Jim has said it all really, no need for anyone to reply. Nothing to see here, move on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Irwin Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 agreedtalent lies in knowing what the song requires to make it a song/arrangement/progressionopinions are like arseholes though, and peoples opinion of what constitue talent is the sameits a pretty pointless thread tbh, all this will achieve is a bitching festival Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cynic Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Agreed. I'm not impressed by fast guitarists in the same way that I'm not impressed by fast drivers.Having said that my guitar playing is akin to a toddler on a trike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted September 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Play for the song.Play what the song requires' date=' no more no less!Happened to witness one Mr Jablonski ripping seven sheds of shit out of his guitar last week. He was playing cover versions that were unrecognisable due to the tweeeedledaddddleeeedoooooodletwaaaaaaang plink fuddle doing. Awful. Extremely talented chap but it was boring beyond... We left! Musicians masturbating with their chosen instrument is usually always a little crap! Time and a place and usually, for my taste, not in the middle of a song!speed shmeed skill shmillSONGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']yes but you mean in a situation where a ripping solo most likely wasnt needed, and was therefor unwanted. i can see you point of view tho and i would also find that very boring however i also find watching/listening to a good shreader very very impressive.I dont feel speed is always better tho, just interested in opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted September 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 agreedtalent lies in knowing what the song requires to make it a song/arrangement/progressionopinions are like arseholes though' date=' and peoples opinion of what constitue talent is the sameits a pretty pointless thread tbh, all this will achieve is a bitching festival[/quote']ok but that wasnt my point at all, of course talent is knowing where and when to put what into a song my question was what do you find more impressive, speed or technical ability.I dont see how this will go into a bitch fest unless some people decided to start thier shit again, i hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 And my drumming is akin to a toddler thumping his high chair for his supper! Ahh that's needed for our shite songs though! where's maaaa PIIIIIIZZZZZZZA?????!!!!!!! No matter I have found my beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b-bert Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 how do you define technical ability in this context?in my opinion a lot of the time difficult pieces of music are only difficult due to speed. Although for brass instrument how good you lungs are comes into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 ok but that wasnt my point at all' date=' of course talent is knowing where and when to put what into a song my question was what do you find more impressive, speed or technical ability.I dont see how this will go into a bitch fest unless some people decided to start thier shit again, i hope not.[/quote'] oh right, in that case, technical ability if its a choice between that and speed - I'd rather hear a perfect rendition of a bach piece then someone playing the same note at 29717520582bpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cynic Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 I suppose if absolutely pushed I'd plump for ability over speed, but some guitarists have both. I still side with the doubly humped one, that the song is the thing. I loved Kevin Coyne's playing....it was VERY basic strumming with the strings pre tuned to a chord, but it did the trick, emotionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 oh right' date=' in that case, technical ability if its a choice between that and speed - I'd rather hear a perfect rendition of a bach piece then someone playing the same note at 29717520582bpm.[/quote']Aaaats fucking fast like! Wouldna mind hearin that to be honest. Doubt I'd like it though coz it would sound pish... Oooh... back to my original point!PIZZA!!!!!!! I'm off to stick some cd's in my micro wave and see what happens! Maybe condense the whole 50 mins down to about 3 therefore opening up more time in my life for other stuff! My beers kicking in, sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted September 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 how do you define technical ability in this context?in my opinion a lot of the time difficult pieces of music are only difficult due to speed. Although for brass instrument how good you lungs are comes into it.yeh i realise ive made it a bit vague.For me a really technical guiarist would Mark Knopfer (sp) he has an amazing technique and the stuff he plays/writes is always of the highest standard IMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Atom Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Speed is like anything else on guitar, overuse leads to tedium. Take John Petrucci of Dream Theater, probably my favourite guitarist, but in the most recent couple of albums he's pretty much been on Shred overload and it gets boring really quickly. I'd much rather hear a melodic guitar line that is well phrased and thought out over a random wankfest anyday.In saying that, fast doesn't always mean bad. Tumeni Notes by Steve Morse has some ridiculous speed in it but at the same time it manages to be awesome. Also pretty much any Danny Gatton, mighty.That's my opinion, mainly due to the fact that I can't shred but hey, I can't really say I'm too bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Ascension Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 ok but that wasnt my point at all' date=' of course talent is knowing where and when to put what into a song my question was what do you find more impressive, speed or technical ability.[/quote']I don't think you can seperate "speed" and "technical ability".Speed IS A technical ability, i'm not saying you are only technically able if you play fast, FAR from it. However, Speed is a skill, like a a Hammer-on is a "skill" and playing a chord is a "skill" and so on.The problem is that the line is not always so hard and fast. It's not like shredders are standing there flicking their rist on open E as fast as they can, however in some cases they might as well be doing this.The point is, you are not a great guitar player if you just use speed, and you are also not a great guitar player if you just pull some stupidly shite pentatonic bends in every solo. Great guitar players will have amazing flexibility in all areas, its all very well saying Fareri is the fastest, or that that solo in the latest Oasis single has soo much feeling and whatever. You must be well rounded, and that is exactly what Steve Vai is.Anyone who says he simple shreds is fatally ignorant, one look at any single one of his songs will show you that. Anyway that's drifting, let me quote teh_masterer:If one is to truely own' date=' one must own in all games.[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 You can be technically superb without the desire to play fast and I've heard people play fast who arent actually that good, so I'd go for skill every time. Remmeber you can play something fast that isnt that complicated, it doesnt mean you're that good, whats good is being able to play the complicated stuff. CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Page 99 Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Simple example of speed and complexity being utilised perfectly: Narcosis. No need for solo's but complex as fuck and the song's do not outstay their welcome. Nor do they lose any of the feeling of the music, which a lot of 'technical' 'music' seems to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AmbientMood Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Can't say I've come across someone who can play very fast but 'struggle to play a chord properly.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Ascension Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Can't say I've come across someone who can play very fast but 'struggle to play a chord properly.'Surely you know what I mean though.You can't say, would you rather have Speed or Skill.Speed IS A SKILL.Just like everything else, some skills are much easier than others, but that's what it boils down to.You could say, would you rather be awesome at Tapping or Sweep Picking. But not Speed or Skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted September 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Can't say I've come across someone who can play very fast but 'struggle to play a chord properly.'i have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gregor Ascension Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 "mostly, the people who rip on fast playing are the ones who cant do it" - Michael AngeloMilner, you sir are a complete bawbag. "not having a go at anyone in paticular". did you not think i would reconise my own quote. I fully appreciate that speed is not everything on the guitar. i am a fan of clapton, especially the stuff he covered by robert johnson. having said that, fast playing should not just be dismissed as guitar wanking or being the musical equivilant of car dicks. i dont care what you say, but shred does have melody and 'feeling' as you would say. it has as much feeling as your music. tell paganini that he was a car dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted September 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 "mostly' date=' the people who rip on fast playing are the ones who cant do it" - Michael AngeloMilner, you sir are a complete bawbag. "not having a go at anyone in paticular". did you not think i would reconise my own quote. I fully appreciate that speed is not everything on the guitar. i am a fan of clapton, especially the stuff he covered by robert johnson. having said that, fast playing should not just be dismissed as guitar wanking or being the musical equivilant of car dicks. i dont care what you say, but shred does have melody and 'feeling' as you would say. it has as much feeling as your music. tell paganini that he was a car dick.[/quote']i never for one second said anything to the contray. I wasnt having a go at you i never put your name in the quote cause i couldnt be assed anyone who seen the thread would of known it was you so grow up. the only reason i quoted you and not half the other shite that was posted in there was cause i really disagreed with what you had said you make it sound like people who dont play fast guitar are jelous of those who do, like shreading is the only way you should play guitar.Dont clog up my thread by bitchin and moaning when people disagree with you please we've had enough threads closed because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Caz Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 On record i love to listen to skilled musicians but live i prefer it to be faster and rawer y'know something to move to ye ken.Blues = Fucking awesome when its played fast and slow and it demands a certain level of skill and improvisation which i would call it a skill in its own right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AmbientMood Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Generally, jazz players are the ones what got the skills and know how to use it. Many will never really show their true ability. what do you find more impressive, speed or technical ability. That doesn't make a smidgeon of sense. As Doc said, same fucking thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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