Guest Nikola Tesla Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 As some of the more heavy/experimental/extreme music out there becomes more popularised and more bands push their sounds to harsher and more experimental levels of sounds. do you think that the music will ever become too extreme? Will it ever just actually become a totally pointless wall of white noise with no structure? Or will all these things be retained while keeping their extremity/experientialism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Music is always changing and evolving, it will never just reach a peak and come a halt. Extreme music will never be the most popular, and as we all know, this is an industry, so supply and demand blah blah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imprinted Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Will it ever just actually become a totally pointless wall of white noise with no structure? you'll have that soon enough...oh yes, yes you will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikola Tesla Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 you'll have that soon enough...oh yes' date=' yes you will![/quote']Hmm i don't know if i agree with that... a lot of people could consider grind/noisecore (for example) bands to be pure noise.. yet from a musical point of view they are highly structured.And bryn. Extreme music has become popular.. as once jazz and blues were both extreme/underground forms of music, and now are considered cultured listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve corps Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Hmm i don't know if i agree with that... a lot of people could consider grind/noisecore bands to be pure noise.. yet from a musical point of view they are highly structured.And bryn. Extreme music has become popular.. as once jazz and blues were both extreme/underground forms of music' date=' and now are considered cultured listening.[/quote']in terms of musical extremity i dont consider any grind or noisecore bands extreme at all really.there is a world of music out there beyond seven minutes of nausea and fear of god.a few bands touch on the unhinged but go download 'abduction' by sutcliffe jugend and tell me it doesnt make you uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikola Tesla Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 I shall do so. I only used grind/noise as an example as its a more well known form of extreme music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulscoconutass Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Anything that under-goes the 'transition' from music to a 'wall of noise' would just be competing in a race to be the shittest band alive. What's the point in being 'noise' surely that just takes the essense and enjoyment out of music?, and as for unstructured music; modern minimalist is probably about as unstructured as it comes these days, but even that usually has some sort of orginisation to it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Well Im in a grindcore band and I dont think its to extreme. Too extreme IMHO is when you lose touch with what is going on. I suppose some of the "white noise" bands fit that bill. Regarding stuff like Fear of God etc.... bring it on!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Anything that under-goes the 'transition' from music to a 'wall of noise' would just be competing in a race to be the shittest band alive. What's the point in being 'noise' surely that just takes the essense and enjoyment out of music?' date=' and as for unstructured music; modern minimalist is probably about as unstructured as it comes these days, but even that usually has some sort of orginisation to it....[/quote']well it all depends on the purpose and intent of the noise doesn't it. if noise can be manipulated for a purpose that can be considered artistic or to create certain tones that are certainly musical then surely that's to be applauded. even if to most people it just sounds like white noise. or drones. for instance the new sunn o album, the first track on it made me feel uncomfortable not because of anything i could hear, but because of the frequencies they created that were just on the fringes of my hearing. or when john cromar used to create chords with a stringless guitar and 3 electric razors all vibrating at slightly different speeds. none of that is shit, or anything near being the shittest band ever, it's awesome and inventive. it is the essence of music, creative and challenging and it can also convey a message just as well as a band using 3 chords and the truth.i'm sure some people consider the likes of aphex twin to be just a wall of noise but others realise that there's rhythm and purpose behind the sounds that initially make people uncomfortable. i think it's important for people to examine extremes of music be it minimalist ambience or white noise or crushing heaviness or bjork doing an album of a capella music. most of the real innovations are happening on the extremes and only then will people learn to incorporate it into more acceptable music and bring new sounds to the masses. sometimes it's important to create things that make people feel uncomfortable so that they remember what it feels like and so that it challenges their accepted ideas of their own creative bounds. i know all this could sound like a pile of wank, but really it's important and it's true. if i hadn't seen people doing things with noise and drones or seen people my age being in bands or playing inventive discordant music then i'd have never had the confidence or even realised i could do it myself(didn't come from an exceptionally creative or musical background or area). nothing should be dismissed. everything should be explored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikola Tesla Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 there has been a lot of good points made on here.... but i was just wondering about the eventual evolution of extreme music. With the popularisation of some of it... and of course the really inovitive acts trying to push the boundries back as far as possible. Does anyone think think that there might be a point were it does get ridiculous? As eventualy a lot of things that are extreme at one point in time are mainstream at a later point, hense the need for the music to be pushed to new extremes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imprinted Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 dave as soon as you mentioned aphex twin i instantly thought of grey stripe - the frequencies on that made me *really* uncomfortable and i had to skip the track...note to self - never listen to aphex twin "grey stripe" really loud on headphones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imprinted Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 if i hadn't seen people doing things with noise and drones or seen people my age being in bands or playing inventive discordant music then i'd have never had the confidence or even realised i could do it myself(didn't come from an exceptionally creative or musical background or area). nothing should be dismissed. everything should be explored.and this too is a very VERY valid point. experimentation is the key to musical survival. take risks. try something different. if you play guitar try something from a different genre than you usually play - say if you're into death metal try playing some jazz or country - will probably give you good ideas for new chords and ideas/timings.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 For any art form to progress I think it has to be pushed 'too far' for it then to settle back down, a bit further on than it was. 2 steps forward, one step back, you'll still end up one step forward. Like in fashion, what you see prancing up the catwalk is too extreme to actually wear in public, but a few months later you'll see watered down versions in all the shop windows.Personally I think music got too extreme as soon as those scouse fellas grew their hair into so-called 'moptops' and still managed to get on the wireless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 and then they started playing backwards looped guitars and repetitive loops of vocals and changed popular music forever. and that's the band that did i wanna hold your hand. and they still managed to write great pop songs afterwards too. to address the point that a song ruined has made directly, yes there is a point when it gets ridiculous and silly but that's not to say that when it reaches that point it's not worth listening to. so long as you're aware that it's ridiculous and silly and you can listen to it with a smile on your face then you're on good ground. for instance(and i only use it as a continued example because i've just got into them and i'm interested in what they do quite alot), sunn o on the southern lord website claim they were formed purely to create music which would lead to spontaneous defecation in the audience or at the very least severe discomfort. now that's music that's been created as an elaborate filthy prank, but it turned out they were awfully good at it and have done some pretty interesting things with low level frequencies as a result of this. yes it's silly but it's still musically interesting and exciting. you just have to realise it's a bit silly as well. extreme music has to have a sense of humour, because most of it is inherently ridiculous and created to make people uncomfortable. a lot of it is made purely to piss people off who don't realise that the person who made it is laughing their ass off whenever someone says "it just sounds like a load of unlistenable noise to me, fucking pish!". i think it's already got to the ridiculous white noise stage, but that it's no less vital and exciting because of it. i for one am very interested to see where it can go from there, how far it can be pushed and who's going to do it. feel free to post more recommendations on this thread, i'd be glad to hear some more artists pushing the boundaries of extreme music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bifta23 Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Highly recommend that folk check out Francisco Lopez.Not necessarily extreme but certainly pushing the boundaries.He played at Instal two years ago and was probably one of the loudest gigs Ive experienced. The audience were blindfolded heightening the senses for what can be described as submersive sound experience.Saw him again in London and he was building up noise with insect samples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 "Extreme" music will never become popular enough to outgrow the underground and that suits me just fine as there is less risk of selling out. Grind/noise can quite easily evolve into pure white noise, for example take Man Is The Bastard. They started off as a HC/Grind band, but used two basses and was very sludgy and bass-heavy. They gradually evolved into Bastard Noise, and under that guise churn out some really freaky, yet strangely compelling stuff. One track, "Gunrange" was simply recordeing the sounds of guns at a shooting range! Such a simple idea, but also making a point about gun control. I'm happy to simply sit back and watch the continuous evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon Of The Fall Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 i'd have never had the confidence or even realised i could do it myself(didn't come from an exceptionally creative or musical background or area)just admit it. you wanted to be like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 And bryn. Extreme music has become popular.. as once jazz and blues were both extreme/underground forms of music' date=' and now are considered cultured listening.[/quote']Blues extreme ? something that formed from negro slaves and formed a basis for all the pop music you hear today for its simplicity and listenability. underground? I don't think 'underground' existed 80 years ago. You want extreme music in that period try Bartok / Stravinsky (sp) or those kerazy serialism muthasuckers (yeah I know - higher music...)Neither jazz nor bare bone blues even if they were considered 'extreme' could ever 'take over music' - not while Girls Aloud keep churning out hits! Note the swing feel to their latest number! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 just admit it. you wanted to be like me hehe, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Blues extreme ? something that formed from negro slaves and formed a basis for all the pop music you hear today for its simplicity and listenability. underground? I don't think 'underground' existed 80 years ago. You want extreme music in that period try Bartok / Stravinsky (sp) or those kerazy serialism muthasuckers (yeah I know - higher music...)Neither jazz nor bare bone blues even if they were considered 'extreme' could ever 'take over music' - not while Girls Aloud keep churning out hits! Note the swing feel to their latest number!i'm sure some jazz could certainly be classed as extreme. and didn't you just argue your way in a circle with the blues forms the basis of all pop music you hear today going into the blues could never take over music bit?jamie cullum and norah jones mellow coffee table bastard jazz are surely taking over music today. norah jones is one of the biggest selling artists in the world and has certainly been influenced by some very jazzy and out there people i'm sure.ever heard john zorn's jazz stuff? like naked city. that's bloomin extreme all right, gave me a headache. he also once recorded a piece of music which carried a warning on it because if you listened to it too much you would go deaf. it featured the recording of many panes of glass being smashed at once and apparently the frequencies were so harsh it would eventually make you deaf. which is kinda cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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