Lemonade Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I like Jim's suggestion that Cobra Kai will get 100s of punters rammed into venues Generally, when The Underkills soundcheck it's much easier cos 10 folk in a venue don't make much difference to the overall sound.Cheeky! Are you doing the sound at our gig in April? You're in for it you cunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'm not suggesting that I know what I'm doing better than the sound engineer, far from it. Just that the guy above makes it sound as though he's saying his word is absolutely final, which I don't agree with. As I said, they're our songs and we know how they're supposed to sound, so if something sounds off to me I'd like him to at least take into consideration that he might not have our specific sound set up properly. I wasn't saying I'd "storm off in a huff" if he disagreed, but if he wasn't even willing to listen to me and consider that he might be wrong, there's a fairly good chance that I would avoid that venue in the future. Surely the sound has to be a collaboration between the band and the engineer? Which is why I merely asked the question above, if his word was always final.there is no real way for you to tell what it sounds like, you may think when you walk off stage you are getting a general idea of the front of house but your not, not unless you have a 50 meter lead you use to walk a good distance from the stage, also as jim said, when a room fills with people it sounds completely different to a sound check, so again what you may think is too loud could be perfect with a full audience, thats why you have to trust they sound guy and respect his decision. Yes by all means give suggestions but dont be upset if he tells you your speaking rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Cheeky! Are you doing the sound at our gig in April? You're in for it you cunt Bit of a DIY effort - the guy from the Vizzitors will mainly be doing it - he's an experienced DIY gig kind of dude. Whereas I've got no idea what to do with a sound desk...I might pull the plug during Cobra Kai's set just for a laugh though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 What if the band are deeply unhappy with the sound you've given them, do you still refuse to change anything on the basis that they are lower down the "food chain" than you? Or do you just ALWAYS know best? I said I wouldn't take a lot of grief, not that I wouldn't listen to, and try to comply with, reasonable requests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I said I wouldn't take a lot of grief, not that I wouldn't listen to, and try to comply with, reasonable requests.Arite, keep yer hair on? He was only saying.Jeez you Sound engineers guys...(awaits a drummer influenced retort) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I said I wouldn't take a lot of grief, not that I wouldn't listen to, and try to comply with, reasonable requests.That's fair enough. Nobody should have to take a lot of grief in any job, I just thought you meant that you weren't prepared to listen to bands thoughts on the sound set-up, so I'll admit I read that wrong and apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Arite, keep yer hair on? He was only saying.Jeez you Sound engineers guys...(awaits a drummer influenced retort) I was merely pointing out that there's a difference between giving me grief and requesting something. At the end of the day it's a two-way thing, but the final decision on what is possible/acceptable/advisable rests with me. I have my employers equipment, profits and wishes to attend to first before I get to anyone else's, including mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 If you have decent equipment and a competent engineer the FOH sound is largely down to the band themselves. I was once working a gig, I think I only checked the headliners so all the other bands were on the fly. One of the bands sounded god-awful. I tweaked and tinkered but nothing I could do could salvage the sound. An acquaintance was kind enough to point this out to me (as if I hadn't already figured it out) and put the blame squarely on my shoulders. He was so insistent that I even began to mentally review my prep to see if I'd maybe made a mistake somewhere. The next band came on, used pretty much the same backline, mics etc. No real tinkering on the desk. Sounded sweet. The PA was sounding how I expected it to sound. The moral of the story is: SISO (or GIGO if you're more polite than me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Touring bands that completely take the piss at places like Tunnels really piss me off. They quite clearly haven't left the city they were in the previous night cos they all got pissed up and slept too long, they then don't know where the Tunnels is, and end up not showing up till about 6.30pm. But there's no way the guys at the Tunnels can let you soundcheck before the act you're supporting. They then use up the rest of the time to soundcheck. Touring bands should arrange to be at the venue earlier, and get their arses their earlier, and not totally walk all over the local bands supporting them, and bringing a few punters through the door to see them on a Tuesday night at the Tunnels!You really dont have a clue do you?Which do you think is a higher priority to a touring band.... getting some sleep or not pissing off some local band who is supporting them?Why dont touring bands/tour managers know where the Tunnels are... I'd be inclined to ask the promoters that question...You have to remember a few things about touring bands, most if not all are professional, and by that I mean they are attempting to make a career out of it, because of their lowly status agents wont be able to book the perfect tour and they will often have some crazy mileages to do between gigs, they come up to Scotland because we are band hungry and the gigs are available, it puts a massive hole in their small tour budget to come way up here, they have to make an impression on the punters where as the local band dont really need to impress anyone but its nice when they do. The local engineer will more than likely have 'done' the local band before and will have an idea about the sound and songs, they wont have worked with the touring band before...Lastly.... the touring band are being paid way more than you to be assholes and they need the practice!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I said I wouldn't take a lot of grief, not that I wouldn't listen to, and try to comply with, reasonable requests.Aye..... right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 You really dont have a clue do you?Which do you think is a higher priority to a touring band.... getting some sleep or not pissing off some local band who is supporting them?Why dont touring bands/tour managers know where the Tunnels are... I'd be inclined to ask the promoters that question...You have to remember a few things about touring bands, most if not all are professional, and by that I mean they are attempting to make a career out of it, because of their lowly status agents wont be able to book the perfect tour and they will often have some crazy mileages to do between gigs, they come up to Scotland because we are band hungry and the gigs are available, it puts a massive hole in their small tour budget to come way up here, they have to make an impression on the punters where as the local band dont really need to impress anyone but its nice when they do. The local engineer will more than likely have 'done' the local band before and will have an idea about the sound and songs, they wont have worked with the touring band before...Lastly.... the touring band are being paid way more than you to be assholes and they need the practice!!Listen, I accept all of that, but I'm talking touring bands who have been in Glasgow/Edinburgh the previous night (that's normally the case with the bands I've had the pleasure of supporting). It's not that difficult to get up to Aberdeen on time from that sort of distance.On other occasions, we've supported bands who have clearly made a point of getting to Aberdeen as early as they can, and on these occasions, everything runs far more smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I was merely pointing out that there's a difference between giving me grief and requesting something. At the end of the day it's a two-way thing, but the final decision on what is possible/acceptable/advisable rests with me. I have my employers equipment, profits and wishes to attend to first before I get to anyone else's, including mine.And I was merely pointing out how folk can take what a soundman says the wrong way I'm in your gang, that;s if you let drummers in your gang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gold Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Listen, I accept all of that, but I'm talking touring bands who have been in Glasgow/Edinburgh the previous night (that's normally the case with the bands I've had the pleasure of supporting). It's not that difficult to get up to Aberdeen on time from that sort of distance.My guess is that you've not done any touring. Even short jaunts can be quite tiring: the late nights and the miles add up. Uncarpeted floors become surprisingly easy to sleep on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 My guess is that you've not done any touring. Even short jaunts can be quite tiring: the late nights and the miles add up. Uncarpeted floors become surprisingly easy to sleep on.I once played Glasgow on a Sunday, then Aberdeen on the Monday. Do 2 day tours count? We were on time for both gigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 You really dont have a clue do you?touring bands, most if not all are professional, and by that I mean they are attempting to make a career out of itThat's not very true now, is it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I once played Glasgow on a Sunday, then Aberdeen on the Monday. Do 2 day tours count? We were on time for both gigs A two day 'tour' Thats just a day out and doesn't count. In all my days of promoting and running a venue it was a rare thing and pleasant thing for a band to be on time. I did find it was the bands usually traveling the furthest that would arrive on time having allowed for travel time of far more than was needed. Traveling from Glasgow if unaware of the roads usually resulted in bands arriving late and a little stressed having underestimated the time needed. Shit happens and no big deal. Sitting around waiting for a band to arrive, set up and then soundcheck for an age is part of the turf. Suck it up or find away of managing your own time. If there is a house protocol that gets adhered too, as it does in the bigger venues, then a time slot is allowed for sound checking and do or die.No point in moaning about it. This has been happening far longer than any of us has hot dinners, except Graeme C maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 A two day 'tour' Thats just a day out and doesn't count. In all my days of promoting and running a venue it was a rare thing and pleasant thing for a band to be on time. I did find it was the bands usually traveling the furthest that would arrive on time having allowed for travel time of far more than was needed. Traveling from Glasgow if unaware of the roads usually resulted in bands arriving late and a little stressed having underestimated the time needed. Shit happens and no big deal. Sitting around waiting for a band to arrive, set up and then soundcheck for an age is part of the turf. Suck it up or find away of managing your own time. If there is a house protocol that gets adhered too, as it does in the bigger venues, then a time slot is allowed for sound checking and do or die.No point in moaning about it. This has been happening far longer than any of us has hot dinners, except Graeme C maybe... I wasn't suggesting the 2 day tour actually counted. We didn't even know about the Aberdeen gig till after we'd played the Glasgow gig. Another of Jamesy's last minute support slots at Moshulu It was supporting Good Books though, so that was fairly cool I've got used to soundchecks never running on time, but lateness is something that will annoy me for my entire life, so I will on occasion have a wee moan about it. Flood of Red turned up 4 hours late to the Lemon Tree on Friday, and they weren't even playing anywhere the night before! (punctured tyre in Dundee) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 "4 hours"?hehe, that's pretty much turning of the next night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I once played Glasgow on a Sunday, then Aberdeen on the Monday. Do 2 day tours count? We were on time for both gigs That wasn't a tour, you played Glasgow then just happened to play your home town (i.e. within easy reach of your bed, shower, clean clothes, parents fridge) the next day. Touring is the second most tiring thing I've ever done after festivals (aye, the whole festival, not just one set and the rest of the weekend off) but I still think there's no excuse (barring road accidents/severe weather/loooong journey etc) for turning up significantly late. In fact, since playing gigs is the whole point of the tour it amazes me how many so-called professional bands fail to arrive on time, even ones with tour managers. Some of my (least) favourite excuses: "The agent never told us what time to be here." Try phoning to check, you dickweeds. "We thought it was a late show." See previous answer. "We never realised Aberdeen was so far away." Maps were invented hundreds of years ago, use one! Alternatively, see previous answer. "There's no motorways this far north." See previous answer. Also, since that loses you 30 minutes tops, why are you 3 hours late?! In short, there is no excuse* for bands being late to soundcheck if they were playing Glas/Edin the night before. Even leaving those places at 1pm still gets you to Aberdeen on time.*Except unforseen circumstances of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 "4 hours"?hehe, that's pretty much turning of the next night...They were due to arrive at 3pm for soundcheck - got to Lemon Tree at about 7. Doors opened at 7.30, and they didn't bother soundchecking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 They were due to arrive at 3pm for soundcheck - got to Lemon Tree at about 7. Doors opened at 7.30, and they didn't bother soundchecking...however did they manage to hear themselves if they didnt soundcheck???????????!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treader. Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 ...and we've come full circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 That wasn't a tour, you played Glasgow then just happened to play your home town (i.e. within easy reach of your bed, shower, clean clothes, parents fridge) the next day. Touring is the second most tiring thing I've ever done after festivals (aye, the whole festival, not just one set and the rest of the weekend off) but I still think there's no excuse (barring road accidents/severe weather/loooong journey etc) for turning up significantly late. In fact, since playing gigs is the whole point of the tour it amazes me how many so-called professional bands fail to arrive on time, even ones with tour managers. Some of my (least) favourite excuses: "The agent never told us what time to be here." Try phoning to check, you dickweeds. "We thought it was a late show." See previous answer. "We never realised Aberdeen was so far away." Maps were invented hundreds of years ago, use one! Alternatively, see previous answer. "There's no motorways this far north." See previous answer. Also, since that loses you 30 minutes tops, why are you 3 hours late?! In short, there is no excuse* for bands being late to soundcheck if they were playing Glas/Edin the night before. Even leaving those places at 1pm still gets you to Aberdeen on time.*Except unforseen circumstances of courseI agree with everything you said**Except for belittling our "tour".Na - I'm kidding - I already said above that I wasn't serious about that being a tour. I'm not underestimating how tiring/stressful a tour can be for bands, but like Ian says, it shouldn't be that difficult to make soundcheck on time if it's planned properly. Find out where the venue is, find out how long it will take to get from this city to that city, then leave in time to get to where you need to be in time. If you're trying to be a professional band, and do this for a living, then it is effectively your job.If I had a meeting in Aberdeen one day, one in Glasgow the next, and then one in Leeds the next day. I couldn't just turn up 3 hours late to Leeds and say "eh, I didn't realise how long it would take" or "my boss didn't tell me what time the meeting started". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 however did they manage to hear themselves if they didnt soundcheck???????????!!!!!!!!!!!Haha. Fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 If I had a meeting in Aberdeen one day, one in Glasgow the next, and then one in Leeds the next day. I couldn't just turn up 3 hours late to Leeds and say "eh, I didn't realise how long it would take" or "my boss didn't tell me what time the meeting started".He would understand if the load in/out at your meeting was really bad.....o_OTouring is something ive done quite a lot of and I will say that the only time that arriving late was an issue involved breakdowns (vehicle and nervous) Vehicle...Three tonner propshaft, M1Tour bus gearbox, M6Nervous...Driving truck from Aberdeen to Feckin Bavaria with just some kip on the ferry and no second driver.... Ian knows all about sounchecks from hell...eh bud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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