AWPR petition (look!)

[Daniel]

How will they lose the majority of the land when the final route hasn't been decided? We know that the Milltimber Brae route is the preferred option with a link between there and Stonehaven' date=' but we don't know the specifics.

Okay, so we're going to lose a few organic businesses. Boo hoo. I'm sure those businesses can use the money from compulsory purchase to go and start again elsewhere, so what's the big deal?

Question : Why should organic farming matter more than other forms of farming?[/quote']

cloud, the compensation they will receive will not be to the true value of the land, it takes years and years to make the soil to its best, it has taken these farmers 1000s of hours of labour, large investment, years bulding up a customer base. but hi lets just knock the fuckers pad down, give them a few quid and tell them do drive north

[lepeep]

Organic farming is sustainable' date=' natural and good for the land and wildlife in the long term because it isn't sterilised by pesticides and polluted with synthetic fertilisers..

Because produce is sold locally, it's fresher, better tasting, healthier, and there are no exhorbitant environmental impacts involved such as there are when supermarkets do absurd things like fly spring onions from mexico, or truck their crap all over the country.

You should also support local producers because it keeps money in the community, instead of supermarkets sucking it out.

There are loads of reasons why organic farming should be supported, and why it is far more important than intensive, polluting, wildlife damaging, landscape destroying mass scale agri-business.

As has been explained, you cannot simply relocate an organic business. Also, some of those affected will not be directly in the path of the proposed stonehaven spur, but right next to it, so they wont be offered compulsory purchase but would still have their business destroyed.[/quote']

remember though stripey "boo hoo", to anyone affected by it.

a true right wing view, but, we all know how cloud likes to stir... ho ho

[Hardcore Mel]

Mel' date=' Cloud knows everything, don't you read his posts?[/quote']

sorry i forgot. cloudfact supercedes actual fact.

[Frosty Jack]

sorry i forgot. cloudfact supercedes actual fact.

[Guest MKII]

Kinda funny coming from MR SNOPES!

[Chris]

Kinda funny coming from MR SNOPES!

snopes is pure, unfiltered truth! don't speak ill of it.

[Me and Parvati]

Don't worry, it'll never get built; once everyone important has had their backhanders, they'll leave the lawyers to sweep up the dregs and it'll all be quietly forgotten. We'll be still sitting in the queues, because to get a house we can afford we have to live miles outside Aberdeen.

B.A.N.A.N.A.

[Cloud]

cloud' date=' the compensation they will receive will not be to the true value of the land, it takes years and years to make the soil to its best, it has taken these farmers 1000s of hours of labour, large investment, years bulding up a customer base. but hi lets just knock the fuckers pad down, give them a few quid and tell them do drive north[/quote']

Sure, let's placate them by not building the thing. Let's watch the businesses close down in places like Banff and Peterhead simply because they can't afford to keep lorries on the road that have to sit in traffic jams in the City, lorries that spend over an hour trying to get from the AECC to Garthdee because Anderson Drive is an utter mess and pretty much can't be upgraded any more.

Instead of worrying about a few farmers, what about the untold enviromental damage being done by cars travelling in low gears over completely unsuitable roads - ever tried driving over the back roads from the Bridge of Don to Dyce? Same goes for the Westhill to Dyce roads, the Westhill to Stonehaven roads and so on.

Try thinking about the impact upon everyone, not just the impact of a few farmers that are trying to hold out for every penny that they can get. Personally, I'm happy to lose organic goods in exchange for not having to drive the deathtrap roads over to Dyce and so on.

Do people actually realise what the consequences are of the bypass not being built?

Funny though, I see there's a mention of adopting a right wing view. Last time I checked, Stalin didn't worry about the enviroment or businesses either.

edit : I'm still interested as to how people know what's going to be affected when the most recent map shows that the people responsible for the AWPR haven't even settled on a final route.

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

Sure' date=' let's placate them by not building the thing. Let's watch the businesses close down in places like Banff and Peterhead simply because they can't afford to keep lorries on the road that have to sit in traffic jams in the City, lorries that spend over an hour trying to get from the AECC to Garthdee because Anderson Drive is an utter mess and pretty much can't be upgraded any more.

Instead of worrying about a few farmers, what about the untold enviromental damage being done by cars travelling in low gears over completely unsuitable roads - ever tried driving over the back roads from the Bridge of Don to Dyce? Same goes for the Westhill to Dyce roads, the Westhill to Stonehaven roads and so on.

Try thinking about the impact upon everyone, not just the impact of a few farmers that are trying to hold out for every penny that they can get. Personally, I'm happy to lose organic goods in exchange for not having to drive the deathtrap roads over to Dyce and so on.

Do people actually realise what the consequences are of the bypass not being built?

Funny though, I see there's a mention of adopting a right wing view. Last time I checked, Stalin didn't worry about the enviroment or businesses either.

edit : I'm still interested as to how people know what's going to be affected when the most recent map shows that the people responsible for the AWPR haven't even settled on a final route.[/quote']

I would assume that anyone complaining about the bypass plans has not had to make the journey to Dyce in the morning, or the even worse journey from Dyce at about 5pm. Doing that for a few months certainly makes you see how ridiculous it is that in 2006 they're still debating the fucking bypass, when any fool should have seen years ago how essential it was going to be by this time. That journey is a fucking joke, no matter which mode of transport you use.

Just build the fucker. How many of those going on about the organic farmers buy direct from the farmers, rather than from Tesco, Sainsburys, or any other supermarket that goes up to the farmer and says "you'll accept this piddly amount for your tatties, and you'll fucking like it"? Probable answer: none.

[Cloud]

I would assume that anyone complaining about the bypass plans has not had to make the journey to Dyce in the morning' date=' or the even worse journey from Dyce at about 5pm. Doing that for a few months certainly makes you see how ridiculous it is that in 2006 they're still debating the fucking bypass, when any fool should have seen years ago how essential it was going to be by this time. That journey is a fucking joke, no matter which mode of transport you use.[/quote']

20 minutes from Blackdog to Charleston when the bypass is complete at rush hour.

60 minutes from Blackdog to Charleston at the minute at rush hour.

That's 40 less minutes that the car is being used for. It's also 40 less minutes in rush hour traffic, characterised by low gears - which in turn generates more pollution.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of important business people are putting serious pressure on the councils now to deliver the bypass, under threat of pulling out of Aberdeen. The oil's starting to go, Gordon Brown is making it unviable to really explore for more, so if the bypass doesn't get built, bye bye affluent Aberdeen. And then who'll be complaining? No doubt it'll be the twats on the proposed lines of the bypass who are now forced into selling their house and moving into a semi detached house in Northfield.

Just build the fucker. How many of those going on about the organic farmers buy direct from the farmers, rather than from Tesco, Sainsburys, or any other supermarket that goes up to the farmer and says "you'll accept this piddly amount for your tatties, and you'll fucking like it"? Probable answer: none.

From what I can tell, organic foods are a sham anyway.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1553438,00.html

And the Guardian is hardly a right wing paper...

Heck, even the Bible bashing right wingers seem to be at it -

http://www.biblelife.org/organic.htm

Let's be honest, any farmer, organic or not is going to fight the bypass coming directly past their land, particularly on the south of the river. Why? It's obvious...they stand to potentially make a *lot* of money from owning a lot of land close (but not too close) to the bypass.

It's just a shame that people with no grasp of the reality of the situation have been lured into supporting their cause - which at the end of the day, is putting more money in the rich man's pocket.

I just took another look at the Greenbelt Alliance's website...they want to build a tunnel on the east side of Aberdeen, with a bridge over the Don...considering Donmouth is a nature reserve, are they really that fucking stupid? If that isn't blatant evidence of NIMBYism, what is?

[lepeep]

I assume that the environmental impact of one more bridge over the Don pales into insignificance to 20+ miles of dual carriageway to the west of aberdeen.

I don't think it is a case of NIMBY, it's just that the "pros" no where near out weight the "cons", new roads do not equal less cars / congestion.

it's too late to worry about a bypass in my eyes, the Oil is not going to last that long, and the road will probably take about 1/2 the time the oil will be here for no?

instead of piling shit loads of cash into a "short term fix", perhaps they should be investing it in other industries that will keep Aberdeen from becoming a Ghost Town, like Peterhead and fishing?

and also, as we've discussed, the fact that milne and Co are going to pop their jolly leggoland houses all along the bypass, this will actually nullify the congestion solution, as you'll have hundreds, nay thousands of families spilling on to the very road that's "supposed" to take trafic away from aberdeen....

and a bypass is only supposed to reduce road use AROUND aberdeen, the shit congestion everyone moans about is getting INTO aberdeen, and I doubt a few trucks going to peterhead in the morning, being diverted round aberdeen will make much of a difference. which makes me think that the whole project is just a scam to open up areas for any house builder with a bit of sway and clout (to the exceutive / council) to make more money (and ultimately not really give a toss about traffic / congestion).

[Me and Parvati]

and a bypass is only supposed to reduce road use AROUND aberdeen' date=' the shit congestion everyone moans about is getting INTO aberdeen, and I doubt a few trucks going to peterhead in the morning, being diverted round aberdeen will make much of a difference. which makes me think that the whole project is just a scam to open up areas for any house builder with a bit of sway and clout (to the exceutive / council) to make more money (and ultimately not really give a toss about traffic / congestion).[/quote']

Very few people want to get into Aberdeen, most have to, e.g. to get from BoD to Altens, Portlethen to Dyce, Inverurie to BoD etc. The bypass could make these journeys easier.

[Guest Hon Jonda]

Whatever happened to flying cars and teleportation. Bring back the trams

[lepeep]

Very few people want to get into Aberdeen' date=' most [i']have to, e.g. to get from BoD to Altens, Portlethen to Dyce, Inverurie to BoD etc. The bypass could make these journeys easier.

ah...I see now, so building a massive dual carriageway to the west of aberdeen is going to help people get from the north to the south east with less congestion, do you work for the council? that's genius...

not long before they'll be wanting a bypass for the bypass, because it'll be too congested, from everyone trying to get to tullos.

we'd discussed this before, but, opening the old railways from ellon and banchory, with DECENT connecting shuttle services (cheaper than using a car too, that'd help), might actually fix the congestion problem, rather than pissing millions of pound up the wall on a useless 20+ mile of road.

Imagine, if you could take a train up Glenshee in the winter, for skiing and boarding...I am up for that.