Jim Stax Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Disagreed. You should feel left out and stand in the corner..Only if it is a acousticaly superior corner to the one at the outher side of the room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Only if it is a acousticaly superior corner to the one at the outher side of the room!Just get in the corner and behave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Only if it is a acousticaly superior corner to the one at the outher side of the room!It will be outdoors. Evanescence is being blared from a small, roundish, yellow portable cd player, barely audible over the ferocious wind, plague of locusts and complimentary laughing farmer choir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 It will be outdoors. Evanescence is being blared from a small' date=' roundish, yellow portable cd player, barely audible over the ferocious wind, plague of locusts and complimentary laughing farmer choir.[/quote']T in The Park! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 I don't doubt that for a second' date=' I'm just saying I personally don't find electronics as enjoyable as the real instruments. I'm more disputing Stripey's idea that the use of real instruments is somehow artistically sub-par to electronic instruments.[/quote']I think he's perhaps overstated a point(I cant be bothered reading back), maybe in a grumpy mood at the time... because one of his favourite tracks features flute. He did use Neotropic as an example, do demonstrate what he means... I think it was a fine example. Also, its very hard to tell what is a real instrument and what is software on recordings these days anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Whilst I agree with this' date=' I'd also suggest that skill allows said people to voice themselves in multiple ways. You could have all the talent in the world but without some degree of skill, nobody is going to know about it.Skill and knowledge are in perfect concordance with natural talent, contrary to the beliefs of many people who see skill somehow as a dampener on creativity / enjoy dismissing 'elitist' approaches etc.[/quote'] You could have all the skill in the world, but without some degree of talent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 In terms of rock and jazz' date=' I think a rough edge is cool, I sometimes find albums like Blood Sugar Sex Majik, Metallica's Black Album pretty horrible for their perfection. The Kerrang-type, pop-metal production ideal is repulsive.However, a decent set of speakers highlight the flaws in my own production and gives me a greater appreciation of well-produced music. I can sit back and really appreciate even top forty music; I'm interested in how the music is put together.[/quote'] If you need a good set of speakers to appreciate it, then it can't be the music you're appreciating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 You could have all the skill in the world' date=' but without some degree of talent...[/quote']Far too many get them confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripey Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 With synth programming and such like' date=' surely you are just, at best, manipulating pre-recorded sounds. With something like an acoustic guitar, you are creating them at the source.[/quote']Nah, samplers and wavetable based synths do use prerecorded sounds, which you can record yourself in the first place. Subtractive, FM and modelling synths are very much about creating the original sound from absolutely basic components generated by oscillators, for example you can make a huge range of different sounds starting with simply a pair of pulse waves. Some synths do use sampled waveforms, but these are generally only 1 cycle. I don't see much difference between a tuned digital oscillator and a tuned "physical" analogue oscillator such as a guitar string. I like quite a lot of electronic based music' date=' but I always think there's something slightly soulless about sounds that aren't being generated by the source instrument. I'd rather hear a grand-piano than some kind of synth-generated sample of one. I think over-reliance on electronic production and musicianship is at the very core of the 'Teletubby' musical culture you speak about. A culture where we homogenize plastic, electronic intepretations of an instrument than to hear the real thing. Bob Dylan with an acoustic guitar and a microphone communicates more to me than anything a man with a computer could ever generate. If that makes me an inadequate conformist then so be it.[/quote']Synths in electronic music generally aren't about trying to imitate existing instruments. The great thing about them is being able to create new timbres. A lot of people, if they want a guitar or piano sound or any other "real" instrument will just simply play and record a real one to use in the composition. The term "real" is a little incongruous anyway, since the software synths I use are as real as any piano or guitar, only without a physical manifestation. They still use a physical interface to play them, i.e midi keyboard and they create real sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyScaryMark Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 I do slightly object to music which never was 'performed' at any stage, yet still manages to be on a recording. Pre-programmed stuff is potentially a good idea for a backing track so a musician can advance a skill such as improvisation but I don't value pre-programming for music performance (generally speaking). I regularly use computer software for practicing music (band in a box) and also some software synths, recording and score writing software.There is nothing wrong with digital synths. They are just as much a valid instrument as anything else and one of the most exciting, in my opinion. Providing they are played with a keyboard (or a guitar?), they remain a real instrument. There is a huge difference between the top of the range pro keyboards, available today and what was available 10 years a go.As for the thing about a Grand Piano verses Synthesised one. I think you will find that to get a decent grand piano you are going to have to fork out many 10,000's or even 100,000's for the very best concert grands. However companies such as Roland do some extremely realistic digital pianos starting at around 600. Also far more practical in a band situation as they can be amplified without use of microphones and also can be played through headphones for home practice. You have to pay many times as much money for a decent acoustic piano vs great digital piano. Anyway, that is highly off thread now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripey Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 I do slightly object to music which never was 'performed' at any stage' date=' yet still manages to be on a recording.[/quote']Why? This is another point that irritates me, the notion that some sort of "performance" has to be involved for music to be valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Why? This is another point that irritates me' date=' the notion that some sort of "performance" has to be involved for music to be valid.[/quote'] I agree, is that 8 characters yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Why? This is another point that irritates me' date=' the notion that some sort of "performance" has to be involved for music to be valid.[/quote']Gets my vote tooooooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Why? This is another point that irritates me' date=' the notion that some sort of "performance" has to be involved for music to be valid.[/quote']It's all a bit Zen really. If a computer in a forest plays a sample of a tree falling with no-one around, does it bypass the soundcard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 It's all a bit Zen really. If a computer in a forest plays a sample of a tree falling with no-one around' date=' does it bypass the soundcard?[/quote']And that's why we love you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Providing they are played with a keyboard (or a guitar?)' date=' they remain a real instrument. [/quote']If that's an exclusive list, you could do with reading up a bit about how electronic synthesis works. Or pay me 500 for a sensor to midi interface?I think a lot of concern over digital things is that you're using preset recreatable capabilities of the instrument. The point at which my head gives up with the maths calculating partials in FM synthesis is the same point as it gives up describing the guitar as a method of solving complex differential equations though. They're just totally different methods of control. I find there's as much unpredictable creativity on electronic gear as there is guitar. I think there are loads of traditional (sic!) musicians who feel that unless something's being recreated from new every time it's played, it loses live authenticity. Traditional musicians are limited by their reliance on what they've already written coupled with inertia both personal and external in affecting changes. Electronic musicians still have these, but a far more dialectic method of interacting with their creations live with the affordance of electronic kit . If electronic music is being discussed as a recreatable form, shouldn't the focus be on where the choices begin to be made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Why? This is another point that irritates me' date=' the notion that some sort of "performance" has to be involved for music to be valid.[/quote']But the whole concept of performance is vital to almost all music.....even dj's (mix).Now that I think about it, pure computer based music is about the only form of music where a performance of some kind isn't required.Singers and instrumentalist all require to turn in some kind of performance to achieve the best recording possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 As for the thing about a Grand Piano verses Synthesised one. I think you will find that to get a decent grand piano you are going to have to fork out many 10' date='000's or even 100,000's for the very best concert grands. However companies such as Roland do some extremely realistic digital pianos starting at around 600. Also far more practical in a band situation as they can be amplified without use of microphones and also can be played through headphones for home practice.[/quote']I totally agree on the practicality of using a keyboard over a piano, we've been using a keyboard to record all our piano and organ stuff, but in terms of musicianship, there is no way pointing and clicking at samples on a laptop can even be compared to someone who can actually play a piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Now that I think about it' date=' pure computer based music is about the only form of music where a performance of some kind isn't required.[/quote']Do you think this is wrong?Purely because this thread has touched on electronic music, go listen to an artist called THE FLASHBULB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripey Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 I totally agree on the practicality of using a keyboard over a piano' date=' we've been using a keyboard to record all our piano and organ stuff, but in terms of musicianship, there is no way pointing and clicking at samples on a laptop can even be compared to someone who can actually play a piano.[/quote']You do realise that your keyboard is almost certainly sample based? I still don't think you understand how the digital writing process works either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 You do realise that your keyboard is almost certainly sample based? I still don't think you understand how the digital writing process works either. Yes I'm fully aware that the keyboard is sample based, but your earlier comments gave the impression you were saying that sample and electronically based music was in some was intelectually superior to real instruments and guitar bands nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Do you think this is wrong?Purely because this thread has touched on electronic music' date=' go listen to an artist called THE FLASHBULB.[/quote']No...not wrong, but it firmly sets it apart from any other form of music, I look at it like painting or sculpture....anyone can do it, but its only art when an artist does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 anyone can do it' date=' but its only art when an artist does it.[/quote']Some of the shit I have made opens that one right up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neubeatz Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 No...not wrong' date=' but it firmly sets it apart from any other form of music, I look at it like painting or sculpture....anyone can do it, but its only art when an artist does it.[/quote']So where is the line between "anyone" and "an artist", is it where the graphics card draws it when the computer was back in the forest felling trees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeC Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 So where is the line between "anyone" and "an artist"' date=' is it where the graphics card draws it when the computer was back in the forest felling trees?[/quote']I think its a bit west of that.....?( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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