When buying an amp?

[Dan G]

Hog' date=' I use Mesa. If that's the sound you're aiming for, you won't get it from ANYTHING else.

[/quote']

Except maybe:

Framus Cobra

H&K triamp mk. II

Peavey 5150

Diezel VH4

Soldano SLO100

VHT Pittbull

Bogner etc etc...

but other than that...

[Jeid]

Mesa ain't the only high gain amp out there. i've never been a fan until recently(the past two weeks actually) but if i had 2000 to spend on an amp, a mesa wouldn't be what i'd go for. i'd probably get me a Peavey or a Soldano.

choices choices choices!

[HateEvent]

Except maybe:

Framus Cobra

H&K triamp mk. II

Peavey 5150

Diezel VH4

Soldano SLO100

VHT Pittbull

Bogner etc etc...

but other than that...

They ARE all high gain amps yes, but they don't sound like a Recto! They sound good yes, but different.

[Hog]

I certainly prefer the sound of a Mesa compared to a Peavey 5150

[Guest Gasss]

Ignore that bit. It's bullshit.

There's nothing wrong with using a solid state amp.

I agree with Chris and Graeme C.

I love valve amps and own two vintage heads but a lot of the time I find myself using Vox Valvetronix or Tech 21 stuff (especially for recording) because its more practical. What the Byre proposes is like saying all upright pianos should be thrown away because concert grands are better.

Well, yes

but...

[Dan G]

I certainly prefer the sound of a Mesa compared to a Peavey 5150

But surely that depends on WHO is actually using the amp? eg I have heard some people get MILES better sounds out of a 5150, than others using a mesa. Yet the opposite is also true...

FYI, the 5150 Mk 1 won the amp test with Colin Richardson (producer Carcass, Fear Factory, Machine Head etc etc etc!) over Mesas, framus and all that lot. And the records he has produced have the BEST guitar tones ever!

[Hog]

Fair enough. So what are producers doing right/wrong when using the same amps but getting such varying results? Mike used, compression, pick ups? What is most important?

There seems to be a massive difference between Colin Richardson guitar sound and any local heavy/rock/metal bands recorded guitar sound.

I love the Fear Factory guitar sound but it didnt seem as good when Christian started using Krank amps.

[Dan G]

Fair enough. So what are producers doing right/wrong when using the same amps but getting such varying results? Mike used' date=' compression, pick ups? What is most important?

There seems to be a massive difference between Colin Richardson guitar sound and any local heavy/rock/metal bands recorded guitar sound.

I love the Fear Factory guitar sound but it didnt seem as good when Christian started using Krank amps.[/quote']

there's loads of factors i guess.

amongst them I'd say the quality of mic's used; the knowledge in where placing them in relation to the amp; the guitars and amps actually used; how good the producer/engineer is; the quality of the recording studio and its mixing desk etc; time and money spent on the mixing process...

but then also how to use the equipment regarding the musicians. They'll use good equipment and be able to play it well I guess - but even if they don't, producers like colin richardson will know great guitar tones and stuff. No local bands has the engineer tell them what settings to use on their amp!

there's probably a load more...

[Guest lime ruined my life]

If you are talking about a guitar head or similar' date=' as long as the head is tube/valve, then you can use just about anything that comes within its pwer range or more. So a Marshall 100 Watt head will have no problems with a 200 Watt speaker cab. It does not have to be a guitar cab, it can be anything, PA cab, whatever.

(Watch out for hi-fis as they nearly always are made from very poor componants and the power rating is usually grossly over stated.)

[url']www.the-byre.com

when i phoned up banana row in edinburgh to ask if i could bring my amp along and use it with the cabs in the rehearsal space i got the response

"we don't have cabs, we have combos"

to which i replied

"but i can just plug it into the combos speakers"

to which the guy said

"no, it'd blow it up, it wouldnt work, we wont let you do that, you need to use a 4x12, itd blow up the combos speakers, theres only one speaker, you need a 4 by 12 with a head"

to which i said

"no, i dont think so, usually good combos have seperate speaker outs and ins"

to which he said

"no it'd blow up the combos, theyr rated 100 watts"

at which point i caved in and just agreed with him.

my amp is rated 75 watts.

i thought id just add this in, it annoyed me.

[Hog]

when i phoned up banana row in edinburgh to ask if i could bring my amp along and use it with the cabs in the rehearsal space i got the response

"we don't have cabs' date=' we have combos"

to which i replied

"but i can just plug it into the combos speakers"

to which the guy said

"no, it'd blow it up, it wouldnt work, we wont let you do that, you need to use a 4x12, itd blow up the combos speakers, theres only one speaker, you need a 4 by 12 with a head"

to which i said

"no, i dont think so, usually good combos have seperate speaker outs and ins"

to which he said

"no it'd blow up the combos, theyr rated 100 watts"

at which point i caved in and just agreed with him.

my amp is rated 75 watts.

i thought id just add this in, it annoyed me.[/quote']

Get all your friends to phone up and tell him how wrong he is!

[soundian]

when i phoned up banana row in edinburgh to ask if i could bring my amp along and use it with the cabs in the rehearsal space i got the response

"we don't have cabs' date=' we have combos"

to which i replied

"but i can just plug it into the combos speakers"

to which the guy said

"no, it'd blow it up, it wouldnt work, we wont let you do that, you need to use a 4x12, itd blow up the combos speakers, theres only one speaker, you need a 4 by 12 with a head"

to which i said

"no, i dont think so, usually good combos have seperate speaker outs and ins"

to which he said

"no it'd blow up the combos, theyr rated 100 watts"

at which point i caved in and just agreed with him.

my amp is rated 75 watts.

i thought id just add this in, it annoyed me.[/quote']

Impedance? Peak/RMS?

If your amp is 75W into 8 ohms, and they have 100W 4 ohm speakers, I can see his problem.

[Guest lime ruined my life]

Impedance? Peak/RMS?

If your amp is 75W into 8 ohms' date=' and they have 100W 4 ohm speakers, I can see his problem.[/quote']

my heads output is variable 4/8/16 ohms.

He didn't ask anything like that though, he didn't ask for either the power rating of my amp or the output impedance .

Thinking about it again, my amp is actually 70 watts, using 2 kt88's on the output stage, at 35 watts each. So it'd actually make no difference if it was peak or rms! not that he even asked!!!!

He didnt ask any questions! he just sounded shocked id even asked, like it was un-thinkable to use a combos speakers with a head, he was just adimant that there wasn't enough speakers for a head. If it was policy that they don't like you doing that then that's fine, it's the fact he then went on to tell me i could rent a 4 by 12 for extra money that got my goat. These people should know what their buisness, and this guy clearly didn't.

"you need a four by twelve to go with a head" says the man on the phone, in a confused voice as if to say "why are you asking me this?"

[soundian]

my heads output is variable 4/8/16 ohms.

He didn't ask anything like that though' date=' he didn't ask for either the power rating of my amp or the output impedance .

Thinking about it again, my amp is actually 70 watts, using 2 kt88's on the output stage, at 35 watts each. So it'd actually make no difference if it was peak or rms! not that he even asked!!!!

He didnt ask any questions! he just sounded shocked id even asked, like it was un-thinkable to use a combos speakers with a head, he was just adimant that there wasn't enough speakers for a head. If it was policy that they don't like you doing that then that's fine, it's the fact he then went on to tell me i could rent a 4 by 12 for extra money that got my goat. These people should know what their buisness, and this guy clearly didn't.

"you need a four by twelve to go with a head" says the man on the phone, in a confused voice as if to say "why are you asking me this?"[/quote']

What power rating for each impedance?

You're right though, he should've at least inquired more. Hopefully all the people who knew what they were talking about were far too busy to answer the phone.

[craig deadenstereo]

It's a valve amp, so the power is the same regardless of impedance - it'll pump 70W into whatever is presented to it.

If it's not set up right as far impedances goes, it'll just pump 70W until it goes up in smokes.

Solid State/Transitor amps put out different power depending on impedance. Generally, lower impedance = more power.

I know that's how PA amps work anyway.

[Guest lime ruined my life]

It's a valve amp' date=' so the power is the same regardless of impedance - it'll pump 70W into whatever is presented to it.

If it's not set up right as far impedances goes, it'll just pump 70W until it goes up in smokes.

Solid State/Transitor amps put out different power depending on impedance. Generally, lower impedance = more power.

I know that's how PA amps work anyway.[/quote']

yeah, doesn't stop the guy at banana row being an idiot!

where about do you use in edinburgh?

[Guest lime ruined my life]

What power rating for each impedance?

i didn't realise it'd put out more/less depending on the impedance setting?

in any case it wont exceed 70 if the valves are 35 each would it?

You're right though' date=' he should've at least inquired more. Hopefully all the people who knew what they were talking about were far too busy to answer the phone.[/quote']

yeah, i hope so too, it did cross my mind that some lowly guitar enthusiast teen might just be taking bookings on the phone, but it doesnt fill me with much enthusiasm for the place.

[Hog]

another quick question. What is different between the Mesa single, dual and triple rect amps?

[N.M]

another quick question. What is different between the Mesa single' date=' dual and triple rect amps?[/quote']

A dramatic increase in price, and a less dramatic increase in rectifier numbers.

[GraemeC]

I saw Garry Moore in the early 70's playing with thin lizzy and he was playing through a HH 100 trannie amp and two sound city 4x12's....and his sound was immense...

He had a Binson echo a vox wah and a fuzz/distortion pedal by the way...

[Guest MKII]

4. But Big Jonney Rock Star uses a solid state 'XXX' I know because I read it in Guitar Magazine and in Axe. REALLY NOT TRUE! Headliners get paid to place these interviews in music mags as they know that all the punters will rush out and buy whatever they use. Looking to see what Big Jonney Rock Star uses has more effect on sales than any other factor - more than advertising. They all use tube amps.

The Beatles(in the studio) and The Rolling Stones(live and in the studio) used Vox solid state amps during 1967 - 1968. Not exclusively of course.

Vox Conqueror/Defiant 35 - 50 watt.

Vox Supreme 100 watt

[Guest DustyDeviada]

The Beatles(in the studio) and The Rolling Stones(live and in the studio) used Vox solid state amps during 1967 - 1968. Not exclusively of course.

Yep, but I would say that, although I love the Beatles (Greatest Band Ever as far as I'm concerned) they weren't necessarily renowned for their guitar tone.

Revolution for example is a horrible fuzzy sounding mess.

I would recommend the book "The Beatles' Gear" though, it's excellent.

[HateEvent]

another quick question. What is different between the Mesa single' date=' dual and triple rect amps?[/quote']

The Single is 50W, Dual is 100W and Triple is 150W.

Urm, in my experience, the Single Rectifiers sound a bit purer and a bit brighter than the Dual and Triple. You can also get decent sounds at low volumes because of power tube clipping coming into play. The Dual and Triple will sound ok lower aswell because most of the juice is coming from the pre-amp, but IMO the Single was better for that.

Because of the different headoom of each, clean tones will be impacted. The Single's cleans will break up at lower volumes than the Dual or Triple's will. In other words there'll be more clarity for cleans on the bigger the amp (wattage) of the series.

I got away fine with using my Single for gigging as it doesn't need to be ear popping-ly loud on stage but still gets the desired cranked tone. You can just then mic it up to the P.A. and there ya go!