National Service - Should it be reinstated to improve society?

[jimr]

Bring back the catapult!

[Me and Parvati]

i reckon we should bring back rationing' date=' the three day week and give the trade unions loads of power like they used to have

sideburns, big 'helicopter' collars, brown national health glasses and y fronts should become fashionable again an all.[/quote']

I agree; more bri-nylon slacks, cloth caps, black bicycles, short trousers, decent haircuts, real music where you can hear the words, playground games involving being forced to kiss girls (or boys), long hot summers, white christmasses, aunties who smell of face powder, Sundays soooo fucking boring you'd rather be at work, absolutely NO good restaurants anywhere in Scotland, respect for the Queen (and her sainted family), pubs closing at ten o-clock and NO off-sales on a Sunday, holidays involving a caravan at Stonehaven and lots of rain, quality TV shows like the Black and White Minstrels and the Billy Cotton Band Show (in black and white, of course) and National Service where you're taught respect for your betters and to know your place. Much better before the hoi-polloi got above themselves, eh?

And instead of getting an education, you fuck around, being bellowed at and bullied for two years learning that you're part of a team. Broken down to be built up again? Like fuck. You learn how to keep a low profile, keep your nose clean, and get your time in. Then you go back to getting a life. Two years behind the nice boys and girls who didn't have to go because mummy and daddy were considered good parents.

Any good reputaion the British Army has in the world is because of its' professionalism, not because it's populated by testosterone-raddled, dentally-challenged minkers.

Why is it when solutions like 'National Service' are offered up, it always seems to come from people who would no doubt start out in the OTC and would also probably consider it a plus on their cv?

I'm sorry, but Obersturmbannfuhrer Bite seems to be able to push my buttons. Matron! it's time for my medicine!

[threeornothing]

"I will point a gun for my country, but I won't guarantee you which way"

[Snakebite]

What about Boot camp for all of these Troublesome teenagers instead of prison?

Would have a similar effect as national service but without the reduction of quality to our armed forces.

It would teach them respect.

Here is details of what is done in the USA:

http://www.bootcampsforteens.com/

[Demon Of The Fall]

seems like the worst idea i've ever heard

[Sue Denim..]

It would teach them respect.

It would teach them resentment and hatred.

[Snakebite]

It would teach them resentment and hatred.

No it would teach them to behave themselves

[Demon Of The Fall]

No it would teach them to behave themselves

Yes of course! Forcing people to do something they dont want to is always the answer to making things all better, its the worst idea since tight pink polo shirts

[Snakebite]

Yes of course! Forcing people to do something they dont want to is always the answer to making things all better' date=' its the worst idea since tight pink polo shirts[/quote']

So how do you control troublesome teenagers, give them money & fluffy pillows, I think not. You have to show them who's boss before they will actually listen to you. They might not like it but how else do you get them to listen.

Even more pacifist methods like denying them access to the internet if they have been bad doesnt work these days cause they then try and accuse you of abusing them for not letting them use the internet (happened in the US, went to court and everything). Parents hands to some extent are tied behind their backs since if they are seen to discipline their child in any form it is seen as abuse and if they dont they are seen as unfit parents when their kids go on a rampage. It's catch 22.

The army method may be strict but it works if done correctly

What is your suggestion to tackle this ever increasing problem?

[HairyScaryMark]

Recently, a friend of mine was randomly attacked by a group of youths aged between 15 - 17. I later found out that I know these people.

These are precisely the sorts of people I do not want to be serving in my countries army. The British Army does have a very good reputation, compared with many others, I believe peopel forced into the army woudl not do such a good job as reglar soldiers who chose to join the army.

There probably has been a growing problems of 'ned culture.

I watched a TV programme on channel 4, on sunday night titled 'The British Working Class'. It was very interesting (although mainly adressed the issue of the working class in London), It put across the point that the British working classes gained a higher standard of living throughout the 60s and 70s but then Thatcher got in. The 80s saw people get richer through money, but not education. Then there was the sale of council houses. Most people used to live in Council houses but as many of them were sold it has meant that the remaining council houses have become much less desirable places to live in. This has resulted in lots of chavs existing, as there has been a growth in a delinquent 'underdclass'.

It is unfair to blame this ned culture entirely on the sale of council houses but it certainly is an influencing factor in some areas. I realise that most neds probably do not live in council houses but I think it would have been an influencing factor, possibly also in their parents.

Thatcher also abolished a lot of council and state services. I remember reading a lettering in 'the independent' the other week. The writer talked about when he was young he remembered his friends and himself were always scared they would get caught by the likes of a 'park warden,' or some other member of staff, employed by the council. This in turn, taught him a certain amount of a respect for authority.

Today there are far less of such characters in society and you rarely see a policeman just walking around in a residential area (bobby on the beat). There are few authority figures to show respect to. The only ones that most youngsters are asked to show respect to are their parents and teachers. A Lot of kids end up fighting with them and disobeying them, without good reason.

It is often thought that many people who have violent nature often suffer from mental health problems. Even mild aggressive behaviour such as compulsive swearing has been linked to mild forms of Autism

[HairyScaryMark]

So how do you control troublesome teenagers' date=' give them money & fluffy pillows, I think not. You have to show them who's boss before they will actually listen to you. They might not like it but how else do you get them to listen.

[/quote']

Who is this 'boss' you speak about about? Is it the state? I understand you want youths to show more respect to other members of society in general. People, however have been saying for 1000s of years that the youth of today are so much more worse than 'when i was young'. I remember a policeman visited my class at school (when i went to school). And produed a number of quotes (one being from someone in Roman times) which said things to the effect of 'bah, the youth of today, when i was young we were much better behaved'.

I also remember reading about recent survey. The survey questioned 16-30 year olds on what they wanted when they went on holiday. As I expected high percentages wanted to get drunk and have sex. Then I noticed 5% wanted to have a fight.

I find such statistics very worrying and suggests that we live in a violent culture. Many of our citizens will seek violent sollutions to problems, far too often.

Even more pacifist methods like denying them access to the internet if they have been bad doesnt work these days cause they then try and accuse you of abusing them for not letting them use the internet (happened in the US' date=' went to court and everything). Parents hands to some extent are tied behind their backs since if they are seen to discipline their child in any form it is seen as abuse and if they dont they are seen as unfit parents when their kids go on a rampage. It's catch 22.

[/quote']

The US should deffinately not be seen a model for dealing with any form of crime to be honest. Most types of crime except a few non-violent sorts are higher in the US. It is a violent society. It has a disproportionately high prison population, for it's size. They are meant to be all for small governemnet yet still lock million of people away in prison.

The army method may be strict but it works if done correctly

What is your suggestion to tackle this ever increasing problem?

To be honest, I am not sure how to solve this problem but I do not believe that compulsory military service for all is the way to go about it. It is very expensive and I don't believe there is real evidence that proves any real benefit for our country.

A number of countries in Europe still have compulsory military service , some of them have recently been less keen on funding it and as a result have made it less compulsory than it used to be (Sweden being my main example here) and in Finland and Germany it isn't entirely compulsory as other 'crappy' jobs can be done in the place if someone opts out of the military service.

There has been a very real, practical point in these countries having conscription. Germany was at the border of the soviet union so hence was scared that it could be invaded by Russia and the soviet part was afraid the other way round, i guess. It just seemed to carry on after that.

Finland was invaded by Russia twice, once at the beginning of the 2nd world war. The fear of Russian imperialism has lived on in recent times so conscription is there as a result.

I will also point out that Sweden has not invaded any countries for many 100s of years and stayed neutral during the 2nd world war. Finland has a no-attacking policy in it's constitution.

Quite the opposite could not be said about the UK. I am really not prepared to be forced into joining an army, only to fight in foreign oil missions. If my country was under a threat which could be countered by millitary force. I would happily fight for my country but I believe wars have mainly been fought for sinister reasons.

[Guest b-bert]

having military trained trouble makers could be the stupidest idea ever. would you like to be the poor police chasing a group of combat trained vandals??

though it may help some people, but surley there are better ways of helping the youth problems

[Guest bluesxman]

I'm sure all those poor fuckers who are subjected to bullying in the Armed Forces would object to the idea that the military instills a sense of discipline. Another arena for bullies to thrive. And, yes, I know not all people in the military are involved before everyone points out they have a mate in the Army who is fantastic.

[Sue Denim..]

All I want is for anyone who breaks the law to be punished accordingly. Be that through jail, fines or community service.

I don't want them to go to court and be given disproportionate punishments from a judge.

[Demon Of The Fall]

So how do you control troublesome teenagers' date=' give them money & fluffy pillows, I think not. You have to show them who's boss before they will actually listen to you. They might not like it but how else do you get them to listen.

Even more pacifist methods like denying them access to the internet if they have been bad doesnt work these days cause they then try and accuse you of abusing them for not letting them use the internet (happened in the US, went to court and everything). Parents hands to some extent are tied behind their backs since if they are seen to discipline their child in any form it is seen as abuse and if they dont they are seen as unfit parents when their kids go on a rampage. It's catch 22.

The army method may be strict but it works if done correctly

What is your suggestion to tackle this ever increasing problem?[/quote']

shut up.

[Snakebite]

If you look at how troublesome teenagers are being punished these days it consists of social workers taking them out for either day trips to the seaside or camping in the wilderness. Yes, to some extent being nice to them does work since most troublesome teenagers are never really used to it. There is the psyhcologcial benefits of this but it only seems to work with a minority of cases, since most of them will re-offend.

Should we just lock the rest up or is there something better we can do to help them be normal?

One point of view is that it is a Mental health problem? Therefore what type of methods should be used to treat them, should they be admitted under the care of the NHS?

[New Found Power]

Oh my yes, I would MUCH rather be in Iraq against my will than at University.

WHAT A FABULOUS IDEA.

[Snakebite]

Oh my yes' date=' I would MUCH rather be in Iraq against my will than at University.

WHAT A FABULOUS IDEA.[/quote']

If you use a BOOT CAMP form of treatment for troublesome teenagers, they will only be there if they have broken the law and they will not be a part of the armed services (so no serving in Iraq). However it should have a similar effect as the army's basic training with regards to teaching discipline and respect. Which would hopefully deter them from re-offending if they know that they have to endure it again.

[Guest ()Papaspyrou()]

I agree

I think we should whip offenders....in the face!

[Marillionboy]

Bloody terrible suggestion. Britain can be proud of the fact that it has never had National Service in peacetime except for as overspills after wars. Drilling people into becoming numbers might make society more orderly but also a bloody site less interesting. What's more, the army are all headcases.

The government has no right to take two years out of the lives of law abiding kids and subject them to something so useless and character destroying.

As for bootcamnping offenders: watch Scum and you might change your mind about how good an idea that is.