Fish out of water

or "The Outrage Thread". With regards to Baby P - Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have children in the first place if they're incapable of bringing them up. Many moons ago I was in a band and the Hammond player went as far as saying if you wanted kids you should have to apply for a licence and then be assessed on your suitability to have kids. Once you had passed the requisite requirements, you could crack on. Hey presto, no jakey kids, no more mini crime waves, and no more Baby P situations. Don't know if I'd subscribe to this - wee bit Big Brother and obviously for that reason it would never happen. Anyone else agree with this or something along these lines? And I know it was wrong of me to laugh - but the dog story was funny as.

Innovations in music tend to be dictated by the instruments or technology being used at the time. Everything's been done with amplified instruments, guitars, bass, etc. Think electronic music isn't that different (uses same modal systems, time sigs) and is getting on a bit now too - Kraftwerk's have been kicking about since the 70's. Hog's right - To get anything truly original, you'd have to basically invent new instruments, scales, time signatures, and probably change the way we perceive music. Theodor Adorno tried some of the above and his results were sheeeeite. Pierre's spot on about cross genre pollination - need to make it cross continental pollination though. It needs to be bigger than the western tradition to get anywhere. So lets enjoy what we're making, and what we've yet to make. I don't think anyone needs to pretend they're at the vanguard of anything though.

Actually, there is a third option - steal one. I'm sure I meant to think that rather than type it...

American Standard? Or is it one of the ones with the oversized 70's headstocks?

Probably when they realised that the media had made it unacceptable to treat children as anything other than fragile angelic beings that must be protected at all costs. Once they realised that, and were able to exploit it...

Aw, +1 on that. Whenever I watch the OGWT I just think that's what we're needing: decent tunage presented with minimum fuss and without idiotic camera angles or presenters. To be fair, Later was meant to hark back to this theme when it started out, but its really just developed a schmooz-fest now. And the booking policy is quite suspect - Little Boots gets heavily pushed by the industry, cue obligatory performance on Later.

Like I said, there's still tunes out there that I like by new acts, but I won't pretend for a minute that they are remotely original or pushing forward - there's been nowhere left to go for years. Not too sure about music being described as fresh - sounds like an advertising pitch for a feminine hygiene product. I do seem to remember ages ago that some sort of mad think tank was offering a large cash prize to anyone that could come up with a new (genuinely new, mind) form of music. Think they've yet to find an entry that ticks the right boxes. I suppose my point at the end of the day is...all western genres of music at this moment in time have croaked it in terms of any meaningful development. If you can get over that, and just enjoy current music for what it is then job's a good 'un.

I think there's an aesthetic element to my disgust with Warwicks - the way the upper body horn looks like a marital aid. Manky. BB series Yamaha's are grand and meet with my approval; Good bang for buck ratio and nice and narrow at the nut.

I wouldn't go as far as to say I hate them - Warwicks I hate, don't get me started on Warwicks. I just think there's things that could have been done at the R&D stage which would've made it a better bass straight off. The Indonesians seemed to have learned this though as the Classic Vibe Jazz is a shit hot bass for the money and much improved on anything they did earlier. If only they'd based it on a seventies rather than a sixties model. And you got a choice of finishes. Ultimately though its up to Azzuro as we're already both Jazz'ed up.

Think you may not have actually read my last response as it addresses your points and added one or two more; and Azzuro (though I don't know him/her) does seem to care enough about getting a specific model of bass to mention it by name. Your point about the 60th aniversary is a moot one; all factories produce lemons from time to time so insinuating that there will be a risk of a lemon on a 75RI is pointless - its the same risk with any bass but generally speaking the odds will still be substantially lower with a higher end bass. Going back to the Squiers, I played two of them in different shops and one at Stow College. I wasn't impressed with any of them. The Mexican Standards do have the satin finish on the back - and dot markers on the front. The 70's Classic however has a poly finish on the back, and is produced in Mexico. So what's your point? Neither will be Azzuro's preference I expect but the 70's Classic would be the nearest 'compromise' under the 600 mark. FWIW - the frets were fine straight out the box. Also I'm working under the assumption that Azzuro is not consumately skilled in the art of fret stoning as you are - therefore that's an added cost in terms of labour - currently a hundred quid or therabouts in Glasgow. Unless you're offering the service for a substanially reduced rate? You like the P bass knobs - you seem to have missed my point again - If Azzuro is after a 75RI then P bass knobs probably aren't part of that vibe and would need to be changed. That however would cost less than a fiver. As I said, if he/she learned all the requisite skills, then it could be a pretty rewarding experience. I however am a lazy sod and would just buy a better model made from nicer wood.

Brotherhood - good album that. Think you're right. In terms of guitar music, its development pretty much finished with Isn't Anything by My Bloody Valentine. Everything after that was pretty much an extension, but not really a development of that scene. Anything "new" would have to cross some totally unlikely genres and I'm not sure the GBP has the stomach for trying to digest something like that. So, we get re-hashes of stuff thats about twenty to thirty years old. I know that's cynical, but its just the way it is to me now. I still like some acts that are kicking about, like The Horrors second album, or Fleet Foxes or whatever, but I wouldn't for a moment accept that they are remotely original in their approach.

Hmmm, well agree to disagree. If youre happy with what youve got then fair play to you and crack on. But, IMO if youre having to shell out a couple of hundred to put right the things that are wrong with it, then youre as well sticking a few hundred on top of that and just getting a better bass. Its a bit like seeing a Ford Focus bashing up and down the Bully with an extensive body kit and LED lights under the chassis. Probably a much better performer but at the end of the day its still a Focus and with the amount of cash and time thrown out on it, you could have just got a better car. When I was shopping for my Jazz, I played a few of these as I thought it would be an inexpensive answer to my prayers but ultimately the neck isnt up to it when compared to the real thing. The only Squier that came near was the Classic Vibe actually the Vibe was a damn good bass straight out of the box. The other problem for me is the mismatch in wood colour between the neck and the body. The body has a clear polyurethane finish, the neck is a Satin finish. So, for me, the matt/gloss thing clashes. So, youd have to: Sort out the frets, laquer the neck to match the body, probably replace the pickups, replace the P Bass control knobs with Jazz ones. You could do it for around five hundred maybe. You could still get a Geddy for a couple of hundred more and the necks on those have an awsome reputation. If you were to do it all yourself though, it would cost a lot less, and youd learn a hell of a lot at the same time about guitars. Horses for courses though.

With respect, don't get the Squier - it might look the part but you get what you pay for and the neck isn't up to much in terms of quality. Azzuro - how much are you looking to throw out for this particular type of Jazz? You're not gonna get a lot of change out of a grand for even a second hand one on ebay. I would go with whoever recommended the Jap Jazz - even better selection of colours and necks, and the build quality is superb. I'm considering getting rid of one of my basses and replacing it with a sunburst/maple neck/pearloid blocks from these characters: Fender Japan Stratocaster Telecaster Bass - UK I already have a Mexi 70's Classic Jazz and have fallen in love with the neck so much, the other guitars rarely get played now. If you're desperate for a natural Jazz with maple neck/black blocks, and are doing it within a budget, my only advice would be to buy a Geddy Lee Jazz (about 700 quid and comes with the Badass) and get the body stripped and re-finished. There. I need to get out more.

Ha ha, possibly. They were one of the most boring bands i've seen in a while though. Their set was much like a John Major speech - doubtlessly well intentioned but mind numbingly dull in the execution.

Played on the same bill as them in Paisley a year ago - Poetry Corner with vague mumblings of a band in the background. Utter Cockwash.

Dave M was in Verge? I thought it was Wee Mike. And I don't remember Highsounds having a female singer. I do remember Flock sang at some stage though. Good band but before their time unfortunately. Jack was def in Inertia who eventually became Phonefreak? My memory is not what it was to be fair.

Commute a round trip of 350 miles for every rehearsal? Hmmm.

A lot of my mates did that when Cobain popped it - they all kept their tickets for the In Utero gig at the SECC that was cancelled.

You were in AKA The Fox? I work with your old Saxophonist. Fancy That.

Great Thread. Has to be the 70's big hitters for me; Yes, and Genesis. Chris Squire is probably one of the main reasons I picked up a bass. "Close to the Edge" is one of my favourite albums of all. I'll take any point in the seventies for Genesis - unlike a lot of folks, I don't care if it's Collins or Gabriel singing. "Cinema Show" is amazing. I've seen the The Musical Box four times, and as gigs go, its good stuff. Noticed a Gentle Giant cover posted earlier - I'm a huge fan of them and glad to see that some of them are back together and playing as Three Friends. Think "Octopus" and "Free Hand" are magic albums. Caravan are great too. Tend to think that generally out there there's a divide in "Prog its OK to admit to Liking in Public" (Floyd/Can/Gong) and "Prog its not OK to admit to Liking" (Yes/Genesis/ELP). Have to say I think ELP were 98% pish. Also take a fairly dim view of the Dream Theater type of prog going about just now - sounds awful. Think The Flower Kings are OK but the guitars usually sound pretty cheesy and that lets them down.

Used Rotosound Swing Bass 45-105's for years and tried Super Slinkys for a change - thought they were rubbish. Were easier on the fingers but dulled quickly and I missed the cotton bits on the end of the string. Also flirted with 45-100's for a while but missed the extra bottom end. Used to go to R'n'B for strings. Is the blond haired guy that used to have to Terry Nutkins bouffaunt still working there? It's been a while since I was last in right enough.

The one selling the high salt content subs? I suspect he was referring to St Enoch Station which is a kick in the baws round the corner from Barfly.

I've had my head kicked in twice in Aberdeen (outside The Schooner after closing the second time), and been chased once in Glasgow after an old firm game. Managed to get away on that occasion. So in terms of my personal experience, you'd be right. That said, there is a certain fondness for the blade down here that means any interaction with the Jakeys runs a much greater risk of far more serious consequences.

First I noticed this was when Driveblind started using it - they had moved to America by that stage right enough.

Agreed - for the travelling support it was a winner. But the locals avoided the place like the Swine flu as soon as somewhere popped up that was in the centre of town. And I know Barfly was technically the centre of town, but lazy fuckers like me always class it as on the periphery if you're coming in from the West End.