Afro Droid Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 From here: http://www.metal-sludge.com/Iann-TimeToDie.htm"I recently read an article in A.P. magazine with the band Atreyu where one of their members said some really ignorant and stupid things. The kid's name was Alex Varkatzas and he said, and I quote "I fucking hate Metallica-flat out, fuck Metallica, fuck Black Sabbath. I don't give a fuck about the fucking "roots". Those aren't my roots, so I don't fucking care. Green Day was more important to me you know?". Now before any of you internet-loving-wanna-bes start clamoring for my head, I'm not attacking this guy Alex's right to not like Black Sabbath or (early) Metallica and if he wants to really put it out there that Green Day are more important than those two bands, that's also his right. My beef is with "Fuck Metallica and Fuck Black Sabbath" and the "Those aren't my roots" claims. Now I don't know Alex, and based on his band I don't wanna know him, but he needs to understand that without those two bands, there would be no Atreyu, no Bleeding Through, none of these types of bands. I met the Bleeding Through guys and they seem to have a much clearer understanding of what the term "influences" really means and how their hybrid sound was influenced by bands like AF, Cromags, Cryptic Slaughter, Void, Negative Approach and that all those bands listened to Black Sabbath, old Metallica and early Slayer, bringing the feel of metal into punk rock and creating hardcore, which is basically a more violent form of late seventies punk rock. To say what he said shows quite clearly why Atreyu and most other bands in the so-called "hardcore" world suck today-they don't even understand the genre they're playing in. For those who don't know, Atreyu are one of the many bands that claim hardcore when really they just sound like average metal with some kid whining over it. Bands like Atreyu, Bleeding Through, AFI, Avenged Sevenfold and the like always seemed to me like they were playing from the heart which I always appreciated, I never thought they were any good but hey, at least they meant it. The problem is that these kids, with their hip fashions, piercing and mall-esque scene are claiming to be from the same universe as the hardcore scene that shook up the world in the early to late eighties, and that simply isn't true. Hardcore and punk have gone from something that spit in the face of the status quo, to becoming the status quo. Hardcore is a scene now, a teenage right of passage that takes it's place amongst the trends of bobby socks, poodle skirts, hippy beads and tie dye, it means nothing anymore in any relevant way and these kids are disrespecting it by writing bad metal and calling it hardcore. It's not just me, cause I'll be honest, I got into hardcore at the tail end of the 80s, where it wasn't as underground but still honest and passionate, so I'm not Mr. Old School either. That being said, I do have friends who've been there since the heyday and most of them hate what's become of hardcore and how all their hard work has led to these snot nosed suburban brats turning what was once a thing of beauty into lunchroom theme music. Bands like Sick Of It all, AF, Madball and others who are keeping the hardcore ideal alive aren't in the press or on MTV or Fuse, not like these hybrid fashionista bands are. So how could true hardcore bands not be involved in the "growing hardcore scene" we always read about. Well it's simple, that's not hardcore, it's something else, something that needs it's own identity, an identity far from the term "hardcore".The problem is that nobody has been forced to re-think this genre because it's really easy to just call it hardcore and be done with it.. So in order to solve these problems, I have come up with a solution, it's a radical one but it just might work. Let's have a National Moratorium for the term "Hardcore", let's bury it in a nice green field and let it die with dignity. We'll have a huge funeral, invite all the legends of the genre to speak about it's influence in their lives and then slowly lower the term and the genre into the ground where it will be at peace for all eternity. Once it's buried then these young kids can sit around and pow wow over what to call it now. "Fashioncore", "Screamo", "Shit In A Blender", whatever they want. This will also help the future generations of music lovers to see what real hardcore is as opposed to what it's become. When it comes to hardcore I want my grandkids to hear Cromags and AF, not Atreyu and Thursday, I want them to know about Black Flag and Minor Threat not Avenge Sevenfold and AFI. Don't get wrong, there's nothing wrong with those bands per say, I'm sure they are relevant and life saving to a large group of you out there, but they are not hardcore, it's just that simple. So if we bury the term and idea of hardcore then the kids can have their own thing to build on and it won't keep polluting the memory of one of the greatest musical movements of all time. PS Atreyu were named for The Neverending Story, does that irritate anybody else besides me?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Droid Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 His interview is also pretty cool:http://www.metal-sludge.com/RewindIannRobinson.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medichi Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 So, he has a rant about the guy not liking Metallica and Sabbath, and turns it into his own little hissy-fit about the use of the term "hardcore". Its an evolving genre, but like the missapropriated term "emo", is beginning to have more to do with haircuts and labels than music. There are hardcore bands about who do the do as well, if not better, than Agnostic Front and Madball (although SOIA still kick the shit outta most bands), and there are bands like Converge who are pushing its envelope. But there are blurry lines also - Isis and even the Icarus Line could be considered "hardcore", depending on your definition. In my opinion (and probably that of the guy from Atreyu!), Atreyu are a metal band, just like Darkest Hour are metal, Bleeding Through are metal, and umpteen other bands on so-called "hardcore" labels like Victory, and as far as I'm aware, none of them are ashamed, nor hide that fact.To claim a "new genre" is required to put these bands in, just makes the has-been MTV VJ (and why the CRAP do I have to have ANY respect for this guy anyway?) seem out of date and out of touch. You're shit strirring mofo, Lucifer. Just how "hardcore" are RL anyhoo? Hmm...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Droid Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I wasn't saying I agreed with everything he said, but he makes some good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medichi Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Such as? Mots of his arguments are ill founded and poorly constructed. Besides his dilsike of Avenged Sevenfold, that is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Found Power Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Does anyone else have to concentrate really hard when reading Metal Sludge to stop the words melding into a big shapeless coloured blob on the screen, or is it just me and my fucked-up eyesight?It's the hardest-to-read site I've ever come across, and I have no idea what makes it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawy Lawson:Attorney Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 His interview is also pretty cool:http://www.metal-sludge.com/RewindIannRobinson.htmJesus, I always liked watching him on TV, but he really thinks he's the Dog's Bollocks-Mach-Z Alpha Super Eddition, does'nt he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Found Power Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Jesus' date=' I always liked watching him on TV, but he really thinks he's the Dog's Bollocks-Mach-Z Alpha Super Eddition, does'nt he?[/quote']"I hated every minute of MTV, especially when they were lining my wallet with crip hundred dollar bills and making me meet hot popstar bitches". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Indeed If I think Hardcore I conjure up images of Agnostic Front, Sick of it all etc.Mind you, some people think that Slipknot is the heaviest band in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 lucifer put it up to probably further his profound dislike of MMw and the hype that surrounds....boring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicoAUBL Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 woooooooo!scratch her eyes out!raarr!personally i think Atreyu are guffand saying 'fuck black sabbath' is just plain rudemadball are better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 rico...apart from one madball song the rest are SHIT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Ive got the AP with atreyu in it...its the latest issue....they LOOK awesome in it hehehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicoAUBL Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 rico...apart from one madball song the rest are SHIT!!!yeahi just wrote that for your benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Droid Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Such as? Mots of his arguments are ill founded and poorly constructed. Besides his dilsike of Avenged Sevenfold' date=' that is....[/quote']Hardly...I agree with him that a lot of what is described as hardcore today is more metal than anything else. And the guy from Atreyu would appear to speaking out of his ass in terms of the influences thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 by the way...that is misleadin...alex actually does love alot of metal and the fact that they are playing ozzfest really got them stoked and i know for a fact that they ALL love slayer...just cos he mentioned those two bands...there are alot of metal fans that dislike sabbath and tallica....it also goes on in that interview about how much he LOVES pantera....you see...two sides...evry time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Droid Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Yeah, but without Sabbath there would be no Pantera. I think that's what Iann Robinson is driving at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 oh that argument is getting old...ok so maybe he is wrong to say "fuck them..." but quite often thats the reaction when people say "oh you like this so you had better like this...!" Err no...so what I love Pennywise...i dont want to listen to Minor threat...cause I THINK they are shit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 and quite clearly sabbath rule and anyone who says otherwise should pick up their guitar and shove it up their ASS!! YEA!!sorry, got a bit emotional there. i think he makes some good points about hardcore changing and all that jazz but so what? his music isn't his music anymore, it happens with every type of music once it becomes more than a scene and more of a movement. hardcore's been a rolling stone gathering moss for years now with the moss being more and more fashion bands that all sound much the same bringing nothing new to it except new and interesting hairstyles but that's what people want to hear. they want crisp production on pro tools and the note perfect chorus to sing along to. man it's the same fucking argument that's gone on for years with punk music in general, people talking about how punk these days isnt' real punk etc. well things change and music warps faster than most things, it's just the wayit goes. i don't know about anyone else but i'm tired of hearing a million fucking minor threat or sick of it all rip offs that are just as interchangeable as the new 'hardcore/metalcore' bands that are kicking about. hardcore is stale in general, not just with the fashionable bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tam o' Shantie Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 tam's 2 cents:musclebound NYC gang-punk a la madball, SOIA, H20 or whatever = sucksmodern day 'hardcore/metalcore' a la atreyu and shit = fucking sucks toolisten to Spazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 oh fuck off both of you...like your two bands (TEW i like ALOT and dedalus i like more as i see them) are doing something new and different...balls...Dedalus sound like arty punk or shoegazing in the vein of sonic youth, ride et al...you know what...you are putting your own spin on it a bit and thats what counts and TEW are...well read their punktastic review...it cant be original now...most COMPLETELY original music nowadays is shit because it has to be so fucking whack that its original...I DARE you when the MMW ep comes out to say we havent put our own spin on it...im fed up of bands that play music that no band in their city play acting all arrogant because they think "oh we are so hip and original." BOLLOX...ive seen quite a few dedalus and Tew type bands in other cities...albeit most of them dont do it as good as you guys...theres a compliment but please...the metalcore genre is a lot less stale than both your styles im afraid....think about your influences...how old are they? Think about the majority of ours...most are at the VERY most only two or three albums into their career...now who's the fresh one?? not wanting an argument but i just found your posts to be full of holes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tam o' Shantie Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 stale or not, i'm saying those genres are whack. spazz are a 90s band too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Droid Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 ...the metalcore genre is a lot less stale than both your styles im afraid....think about your influences...how old are they? Think about the majority of ours...most are at the VERY most only two or three albums into their career...now who's the fresh one?? The majority of MMW's influences might only be on their second album or whatever, but that style of music has existed for ages. Vision of Disorder were doing metalcore way better ten years ago. Check out 'Imprint' for proof.EDIT: I don't think the core of the arguement is how original modern hardcore is or how original MMW are, it's how the genre has developed (either for better or for worse) into something unrecognisable that goes against the original principles of the original movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 oh fuck off both of you...like your two bands (TEW i like ALOT and dedalus i like more as i see them) are doing something new and different...balls...Dedalus sound like arty punk or shoegazing in the vein of sonic youth' date=' ride et al...you know what...you are putting your own spin on it a bit and thats what counts and TEW are...well read their punktastic review...it cant be original now...most COMPLETELY original music nowadays is shit because it has to be so fucking whack that its original...I DARE you when the MMW ep comes out to say we havent put our own spin on it...im fed up of bands that play music that no band in their city play acting all arrogant because they think "oh we are so hip and original." BOLLOX...ive seen quite a few dedalus and Tew type bands in other cities...albeit most of them dont do it as good as you guys...theres a compliment but please...the metalcore genre is a lot less stale than both your styles im afraid....think about your influences...how old are they? Think about the majority of ours...most are at the VERY most only two or three albums into their career...now who's the fresh one?? not wanting an argument but i just found your posts to be full of holes....[/quote']what the fuck has any of this got to do with what music i play ben? i said nothing about my minds weapon and there was no mention at all about my band who i have never claimed to be highly original or doing anything particularly new. i think we're very good but whenever anyone asks me what we sound like i've always said joy division. no point in lying. we were talking about hardcore music and i'm sorry but the hardcore scene to me is stale. there aren't enough bands putting their own stamp on things and when they do it's just not been very exciting. like i said too many bands that all sound the same and that are all conforming to certain cliche's with regards to hardcore/metalcore/emocore. i'm not some indie wanker who doesn't know what he's talking about, i do like hardcore but it's just not exciting for me right now. both in old style or new. at no point did i have a dig at your band either so it's disappointing to see you taking a swipe at us(although it is noted there's a few good comments in there as well, ta min!). i'm not going to defend the style of music we play because i don't feel the need to, we're comfortable with what we do and our influences are far greater than just joy division and ride(these being mainly steven's influences and not really the rest of us). i'm not even into ride that much. stop taking everything so personnaly man, can't some folks have a proper adult discussion about music without someone taking the hump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 oh fuck off both of you...like your two bands (TEW i like ALOT and dedalus i like more as i see them) are doing something new and different...balls...Dedalus sound like arty punk or shoegazing in the vein of sonic youth' date=' ride et al...you know what...you are putting your own spin on it a bit and thats what counts and TEW are...well read their punktastic review...it cant be original now...most COMPLETELY original music nowadays is shit because it has to be so fucking whack that its original...I DARE you when the MMW ep comes out to say we havent put our own spin on it...im fed up of bands that play music that no band in their city play acting all arrogant because they think "oh we are so hip and original." BOLLOX...ive seen quite a few dedalus and Tew type bands in other cities...albeit most of them dont do it as good as you guys...theres a compliment but please...the metalcore genre is a lot less stale than both your styles im afraid....think about your influences...how old are they? Think about the majority of ours...most are at the VERY most only two or three albums into their career...now who's the fresh one?? not wanting an argument but i just found your posts to be full of holes....[/quote']Oh for God's sake. Why does everything have to be fucking personal for you Ben? When has Dave ever attacked My Minds Weapon or Quik? Why did you feel the need to post that when what Dave posted had no bearing on you or your band whatsoever?Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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