amazing breakthru from celemony

[Sam 45]

Don't Dragonforce speed up their solos in the studio with the good old 'tempo' button?

[chris h]

So you're saying you've used autotune to help your recordings because you couldn't play up to scratch in the studio, yet your having a go at mcfly for allegedly using it to make their singing sound up to scratch? That's a bit of a contradiction there, and sounds a lot like hypocrisy to me. Like I said, making a good definitive recording in the studio requires a lot more talent than bashing out tunes live.

Actually, I think I was talking about McFly because someone mentioned them earlier in the thread as an example of a talentless group who use this type of technology to 'cheat' and convince people they have talents that they don't possess. Which, to be fair, I don't think they are. I seem to remember seeing them live on telly once and noting that they could actually sing. Apologies to McFly, I had too much gin to drink last night.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that this technology can serve to smooth out or enhance a decent recording which in some cases I think is OK (this is what I was talking about in relation to previous recordings I'd been involved in) and it can also be used in the above mentioned way - to make talentless nobodies sound like pop stars.

However, I do think people who understand music can tell the difference between a decent band playing well in the studio (whether they're using technology to enhance their performance or not) and Mc... I mean, er, Cher!

[Stripey]

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that this technology can serve to smooth out or enhance a decent recording which in some cases I think is OK (this is what I was talking about in relation to previous recordings I'd been involved in) and it can also be used in the above mentioned way - to make talentless nobodies sound like pop stars.

So basically it's only ok when you do it, because in your opinion you're not a talentless nobody...

The process is exactly the same wether you or mcfly are doing it, people seem to be under the illusion that autotune and the like are a magic bullet that can miraculously polish the proverbial turd, and that just isn't the case. An utterly shit performance is not going to be rescued by any amount of autotuning.

[chris h]

So basically it's only ok when you do it, because in your opinion you're not a talentless nobody...

.

Exactly! Im glad I finally managed to explain myself properly.

[jon]

Puritans, Puritans everywhere.

Chris is right of course. For reasons of time/budget etc, I doubt anyone hasn't used studio trickery to correct something. Is it really any different to dropping in for a solo if you messed it up the first time? It certainly doesn't make you Cher.

This programme sounds like yet another way to make music sound even more banal than the majority of stuff on MTV now. There is NO SOUL in 99% of the pish that is on the airwaves as we speak, and that is due in no small part to studio twiddling and producing any element of grit out of recordings. Call me a Luddite if you will, I don't give the merest of fucks.

I don't care about any of the rest of it, if you want to reduce songs to mere audio maths then go ahead, but I like a bit of dirt to my music. If you can't hear a singer's actual voice, how in the name of sanity are you supposed to believe a word he or she is saying? Fuck that.

A good song is a good song. If it has been recorded in a bucket, it's still a good song. Insanely hi-fi pish is still pish, regardless of the technology behind it.

I love it how people presume that electronic music is somehow more high brow than rock and roll, that it is somehow the adult option and that those who don't get it are somehow neanderthal.

I'd rather listen to McFly than Alec Empire any day of the week.

[Stripey]

Puritans, Puritans everywhere.

You obviously don't know the meaning of the word, considering your ignorant rant is about as puritan as it gets. It never ceases to amaze me how utterly misguided and full of shit some of you people can be.

This programme sounds like yet another way to make music sound even more banal than the majority of stuff on MTV now. There is NO SOUL in 99% of the pish that is on the airwaves as we speak' date=' and that is due in no small part to studio twiddling and producing any element of grit out of recordings. Call me a Luddite if you will, I don't give the merest of fucks.

[/quote']

Well I hate to state the obvious, but if you don't want to hear banal music, don't listen to mainstream pop outlets like MTV, and most of all don't blame technology - pop music is banal because of marketing practices and an appetite for that shite among the general public.

A good song is a good song. If it has been recorded in a bucket' date=' it's still a good song. Insanely hi-fi pish is still pish, regardless of the technology behind it.

[/quote']

That's a matter of your personal taste, but your point of view is a totally unsophisticated way of looking at what music is about. If recording onto a knackered c90 4track suits your tunes and sounds how you wan't it to sound, fair enough, but I can't help feeling people like you diss hi-fi because if you're frightened of the flaws it will expose in your material, because you don't understand the technology, or you just believe a load of bullshit myths about digital being lifeless and clinical.

I love it how people presume that electronic music is somehow more high brow than rock and roll' date=' that it is somehow the adult option and that those who don't get it are somehow neanderthal.

I'd rather listen to McFly than Alec Empire any day of the week.[/quote']

If you think alec empire is representative of electronic music it just shows how completely uninformed you are.

[jon]

To quote someone earlier, wind your neck in. You are not the authority on the quality or otherwise of music. As for refering to me as "you people", I think that's about as ignorant as it gets.

I have written and recorded literally hundreds of songs, some in expensive studios, some at home and some on my travels. I have never been afraid to expose flaws (I think often the most beautiful music is flawed), and how dare you question my ability to play or write? You stick to your soundscapes, I'll stick to my tunes. You'll notice I didn't have a dig at your music, despite you having a dig at mine.

So, to reiterate, amazing technological breakthroughs in sound manipulation are one thing, decent music is quite another.

Also, where did I imply that Alex Empire was representative of all electronic music? Do you think I think that McFly are the standard for pop?

Furthermore, I'd suggest that banal music exists in all genres. God knows that's true for electronica.

[Stripey]

To quote someone earlier, wind your neck in. You are not the authority on the quality or otherwise of music. As for refering to me as "you people", I think that's about as ignorant as it gets.

Wind yer own neck in pal, you're happy to admit you're a luddite so what business is it of yours to moan about technology destroying the soul of music when you've deliberately got your head in the sand?

I have written recorded literally hundreds of songs, some in expensive studios, some at home and some on my travels. I have never been afraid to expose flaws (I think often the most beautiful music is flawed), and how dare you question my ability to play or write? You stick to your soundscapes, I'll stick to my tunes. You'll notice I didn't have a dig at your music, despite you having a dig at mine.

Ohhh get you. I don't give a flying fuck how many tunes you've written and recorded, you're point of view is utterly ignorant, naive and unsophisticated.

"the most beautiful music is flawed"? Got anymore platitudes and cliches you can bring out the bag, fuck you're deep.

I'm not having a dig at your music anyway, I've never heard it, I was referring to anti hi-fi mentalists as a whole.

Also, soundscapes ? Get a grip man it's not the 70's anymore.

So' date=' to reiterate, amazing technological breakthroughs in sound manipulation are one thing, decent music is quite another.

[/quote']

I've never disputed this, but you seem to think technological breakthroughs just mean banality, which is utter rubbish.

[jon]

I'm going to let your last post stand on its own merits. You clearly have a very...interesting perspective on things, and a quick browse through this site seems to confirm that you tend to hang by your own noose, so I'll let the ignorant rubbish your spouting speak for itself.

[Stripey]

I'm going to let your last post stand on its own merits. You clearly have a very...interesting perspective on things, and a quick browse through this site seems to confirm that you tend to hang by your own noose, so I'll let the ignorant rubbish your spouting speak for itself.

Ah yeah you've lost the argument so have a go at my character, nice one.

[jon]

Oh dear, here we go...

I have not "lost" any argument, and I have certainly not had a "go" at your character. All I said is that a cursory look at your posts on this site was enough to convince me that any attempt to debate anything with you decends into one of those "quote each point and then make a smart comment" type of arguments.

"Fuck you're deep", "you're (sic) point of view is utterly ignorant, naive and unsophisticated" - sounds pretty much like an attack if you ask me, not that I give the slightest of shits about what you think about me or my music.

"Ooh get me"? Yes, you're right, it's ridiculous to talk about recorded music from experience. Silly me.

God, this is going to trundle on forever.

[Stripey]

Oh dear, here we go...

Basically you're completely ignoring the creative potential of this software because you see it as a threat, because *boo hoo* people will "cheat" and nobody will appreciate your amazing musicianship anymore. Get your head out of the sand and open your eyes.

[jon]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...

*sigh*

Don't be daft, of course it's not. But however brilliant a breakthrough may be, I will always prefer good songs and a bit of humanity to digital clinicism.

That is not an argument I can "lose", it is a statement of my opinion. Furthermore, it's an opinion quite a few people would agree with. That doesn't necessarily make it objectively correct, but it is nevertheless MY opinion. However many crude adjectives you want to use to describe it, the fact remains.

I use a digital tuner. I record digitally. I have been known to use drum programmes. I am not a technophobe as you seem to be trying to point out. I still don't like technically perfect lift music.

So you carry on trying to belittle me if you like, whatever makes you feel like the King of the Moral Minority.

[Stripey]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...

*sigh*

Don't be daft, of course it's not. But however brilliant a breakthrough may be, I will always prefer good songs and a bit of humanity to digital clinicism.

That is not an argument I can "lose", it is a statement of my opinion. Furthermore, it's an opinion quite a few people would agree with. That doesn't necessarily make it objectively correct, but it is nevertheless MY opinion. However many crude adjectives you want to use to describe it, the fact remains.

I use a digital tuner. I record digitally. I have been known to use drum programmes. I am not a technophobe as you seem to be trying to point out. I still don't like technically perfect lift music.

There is nobody on this planet that doesn't "prefer good songs". If your idea of humanity in a tune is gritty tape saturation, sloppy takes and noisy masters fair enough.

The idea that electronic music automatically means "technically perfect lift music" or "digital clinicism" though is just totally naive, it's not a matter of opinion, you're simply wrong and there is an absolutely massive body of amazing work out there that proves this.

Digital gear and software are just tools, they are what you make of it, going off on one saying the new melodyne is going to make it easier for "talentless" people to make pop tunes is just down to ignorance and fear.

[la mula]

This programme sounds like yet another way to make music sound even more banal than the majority of stuff on MTV now.

Why do you automatically focus on the negative?

Why not consider the possible outcomes of this program in the hands of good artists, artists who will put a little 'grit' into their use of it?

Do you think MTV and music in its vein actually gotten worse as technology has progressed and widened the possibilities?

FEAR AND LOVE.

[jon]

Do you think MTV and music in its vein actually gotten worse as technology has progressed and widened the possibilities?

FEAR AND LOVE.

The two aren't necessarily linked, but there is a lot of pish on MTV.

I must admit, I actually go along with the gist of Stripey's last post. I'll give you an example of what I see as being a bad thing with regard to new technology.

There is a studio in Edinburgh which will only use Variax guitars, PODs, digital drum kits and auto-tuners on everything. He will not use any "real" gear, and by that I mean actual guitars, different amp setups, mic positions, drum kits, basses, pianos etc. He maintains (among other, admittedly unrelated but nevertheless dubious thoughts) that he does not need "real" instruments at all because he can manipulate the output of his digital equipment so minutely as to create any sounds he wants.

Whether or not that is the case as far as the copying of sounds is concerned, I can't get my head around the idea that the infinite array of tone and texture available with live instrumentation is a thing of the past.

The guy in questions has (to my mind) a pretty dubious approach to music and it's application anyway, but his approach to recorded music does particularly rankle with me. I suppose I can imagine him using this software for exactly the negative things mentioned.

[Stripey]

There is a studio in Edinburgh which will only use Variax guitars, PODs, digital drum kits and auto-tuners on everything. He will not use any "real" gear, and by that I mean actual guitars, different amp setups, mic positions, drum kits, basses, pianos etc. He maintains (among other, admittedly unrelated but nevertheless dubious thoughts) that he does not need "real" instruments at all because he can manipulate the output of his digital equipment so minutely as to create any sounds he wants.

You should name and shame whoever this is because he's clearly a fucking clueless charlatan.

[la mula]

I suppose I can imagine him using this software for exactly the negative things mentioned.

How? Forgive me for being a bit dense but isn't this software for manipulating recorded sound, which he doesn't dabble in?

I'd like to hear him explain how he thinks he can digitally create a human voice singing n shit.

[Stripey]

How? Forgive me for being a bit dense but isn't this software for manipulating recorded sound, which he doesn't dabble in?

I'd like to hear him explain how he thinks he can digitally create a human voice singing n shit.

Well there's vocaloid which has been around for a while, the hatsune miku version is pretty..interesting

[Colin Mac]

Yip, great stuff, what a breakthrough. Helping folks who are lazy and talentless and unmusical and who have no soul or creativity or imagination or inventivness to get ahead. Now, time to read the rest of the thread:gringo:

[Colin Mac]

Too much focus on technology. Does anyone else actually bother to learn from the masters and write some great tunes nowadays?

[Guest Tam o' Shantie]

Too much focus on technology. Does anyone else actually bother to learn from the masters and write some great tunes nowadays?

Yeah, in fact I've decided to shun the electric guitar and other items futuristic apperatus and rent a cave to record my next album of percussive sounds in, using only a pair of bones and a mammoth-skin drum.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

I have now given up conventional instrumentation and prefer the sound of beating myself around the head, arhythmically, its a hit!!

[jon]

Literally.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Well, I just watched that video and I was really impressed by the software, especially the key change stuff. That is a fantastic beard too.

I get the impression that once folk get accostomed to this software and really get into the bones of it, they'll figure out how to fuck about with it so they'll end up doing things with it that the developers never even thought of. I'd say that is an exciting prospect.