Lemon Tree No More???

[soundian]

I've actually been billed for council tax in Aberdeen. It's still my secondary residence, and because (apparently) you're liable during the summer months, I've been hit with a double bill for Essex and Aberdeen. So I do have a financial interest in what goes on in Aberdeen - I've been hit for nearly 4 months worth of council tax there and here, and neither seems willing to apply the second residence discount either.

Although I'm wondering how you can afford a place in Aberdeen and not have it leased out I have to empathise with your council tax problems. A few months ago they claimed I was due them thousands (which I wasn't, I'd paid them exactly what they'd asked for) and two weeks later they ended up giving me 500. I have no idea why but, not wanting to look a gift horse in the mouth, didn't want to ask.

[Cloud]

Although I'm wondering how you can afford a place in Aberdeen and not have it leased out I have to empathise with your council tax problems. A few months ago they claimed I was due them thousands (which I wasn't, I'd paid them exactly what they'd asked for) and two weeks later they ended up giving me 500. I have no idea why but, not wanting to look a gift horse in the mouth, didn't want to ask.

It's nothing that sinister unfortunately - SAAS pay out a second home allowance, which covers the cost of a flat in Aberdeen. There's (as you said) no liability on students, but there is during the summer holidays. It's ridiculous, seeing as our loans are supposed to cover the whole year (certainly, the second home allowance does) - so we're regarded as students in some respects but not others.

Unfortunately, you can't lease out the place if you're receivng any sort of funding for it, so there's nothing I can do.

[stuartmaxwell]

well, you can lease out the place, you just don't tell em. How on earth would they find out?

[Jim Stax]

well, you can lease out the place, you just don't tell em. How on earth would they find out?

He can't now can he Maxi. You went and blabbed!

[stuartmaxwell]

what a greeting shame!

[Cloud]

well, you can lease out the place, you just don't tell em. How on earth would they find out?

I wouldn't put anything past those bastards at SAAS, they already wanted copies of my bank statements randomly last year :s

Better not to rock the boat, really...

[Chris]

You're a staff member Chris, why make comments like this?

Because staff members are people too.

You don't make comments to provoke discussion, you make usually ill informed comments to wind people up and kill some time while you're at uni in essex.

[Cloud]

Because staff members are people too.

You don't make comments to provoke discussion, you make usually ill informed comments to wind people up and kill some time while you're at uni in essex.

And isn't part of being a decent person where you don't make little comments about others, particularly where you make no attempt to even discuss what's being talked about?

But go on, what was wrong with my comments here? I posted my reasons for believing that there could be potentially problems with the Lemon Tree being subsidised while going up against a commercially-operated venue, with examples. Ill informed or not, I don't see anyone posting a credible argument as to why it's not an issue.

I'd love if someone could point me to a situation where a State-funded venue is running a music (or otherwise!) programme against a private operator - particularly if the venues are similar in size. I'm aware of other venues that run with subsidy - but in those cases, they're not being ran directly against commercial operations.

There is potentially an interesting discussion to be had as to the merits of the Lemon Tree recieving yet more public funding, and particularly concerning the potential for the LT to be cross-subsidised by the Music Hall and HMT - but the discussion won't be had as long as people make mindless posts designed to score a cheap shot.

[Bigsby]

.

I'd love if someone could point me to a situation where a State-funded venue is running a music (or otherwise!) programme against a private operator - particularly if the venues are similar in size.

Okey doke, here's one for a start off the top of my head:

The Queens Hall :: the HQ of live music in Edinburgh

You really should have asked before you typed out all that bollocks about European competition law and Caledonian Macbrayne.

[Cloud]

Okey doke, here's one for a start off the top of my head:

The Queens Hall :: the HQ of live music in Edinburgh

You really should have asked before you typed out all that bollocks about European competition law and Caledonian Macbrayne.

I've just had a look, and they don't appear to be doing much in the way that would compete with (say) the Liquid Rooms. A quick google tells me that the Liquid Rooms is 800 capacity - so it's a fair comparison...but you can hardly compare the musical offerings at The Queens Hall with the Liquid Rooms, can you?

What I'm after is a situation where two venues are in one city, in close proximity to each other, with a similar offering live music wise. This means commercial, modern music - not "Dougie and his bagpipes" against "IndieHype2008".

And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me *why* it's bollocks. So far, no-one appears actually able to tell me that there's no competition/state aid issues involved.

[Graeme]

The Arches in Glasgow

The Tollbooth in Stirling

The Sage in Gateshead

The Music Hall in Aberdeen

And that's without even thinking about it.

[Bigsby]

I've just had a look, and they don't appear to be doing much in the way that would compete with (say) the Liquid Rooms. A quick google tells me that the Liquid Rooms is 800 capacity - so it's a fair comparison...but you can hardly compare the musical offerings at The Queens Hall with the Liquid Rooms, can you?

What I'm after is a situation where two venues are in one city, in close proximity to each other, with a similar offering live music wise. This means commercial, modern music - not "Dougie and his bagpipes" against "IndieHype2008".

You obviously didn't look hard enough then, in the next couple of weeks they have arty farty stuff because of the festival, but later in the year they have the likes of Roddy Woomble and Seasick Steve, whereas The Liquid Rooms has the likes of Kevin McDermott and Sandi Thom. Hardly a huge difference.

[Jim Stax]

The Arches in Glasgow

The Tollbooth in Stirling

The Sage in Gateshead

The Music Hall in Aberdeen

And that's without even thinking about it.

Think he'll ever shut up and stop banging on about subsidised funding in the public domain etc? (you have been harking on about this for years now Cloud and funnily enough your argument seems timely due to your council tax shennigans. You have a beef with ACC?)

I used to own and run a lovely little (scuzzy) venue in town that probably warranted as much funding support, due to an in-house shared ethos and fab relationships with promoters, bands and public, as any venue in town but I do not have one chip on my shoulder that I had to close the business when receipt of public funding may have prevented that outcome.

Most of the venues mentioned provide, outwith the seemingly commercial, a great and diverse programme of events that simply could not be done on a profit for profit business. Barfly has to make a 'profit', and could not and will not exist purely to break even. I know you know this but the simplicity of your argument is tiring and pointless. I appreciate what you are saying and you have some valid points but please buy a new fiddle and play a new tune. Make sure its a commercial hit though so that you won't need to apply for financial subsidy from the exec.

(I have had mucho red wine and not even sure if this makes any sense but my sentiment I hope comes across. Will re read in the morning and edit if need be)