Hi Wattage Amps/Heads

[eat your parents]

I take it this means high frequency?

If so, what difference in sound do they have?

Thanks

[eat your parents]

Oh and may I also ask about heads in general.

I realise if you have a valves then driving them harder gives a better sound, so are 30 watt heads good, or too weak?

[Guest Satyam Shivam Sundaram]

I'd say a 50 watt head would be best... not too loud, but powerful enough for when it's needed.

In the past(1960's - 1970's) bands needed to use 100/200 watt amps cos they relied on them in order to be heard, that's just not the case in this day and age due to amps being mic'd up onstage etc.

[Hog]

For a demo listen to a Bogner amp, its the creme de la creme!

[David]

Originally posted by eat your parents:

I take it this means high frequency?

If so, what difference in sound do they have?

Thanks

watts refers to the power the amp can output...

so basically the wattage of the amp refers to the volume it can produce... a 100 watt amp will be louder than a 10 watt and for example

100 watts is rather excessive though, i use a 40 watt valve combo and it has more than enough volume for me, plus with valve amps, the louder you have them, the better they sound, so cranking a 100 watt amp will piss off any neighbours/housemates and leave you with less hearing than when you started.... for playing at home i only have my amp at about 2/3...

the only real difference between a head/cab and a combo amp, is the fact that a head and cab are separate... a combo is exactly the same just with the speakers and amplifyer built into the same enclosure... kinda like if you glued together a head/cab.

David

[craig deadenstereo]

Originally posted by Turnham Green:

I'd say a 50 watt head would be best... not too loud, but powerful enough for when it's needed.

In the past(1960's - 1970's) bands needed to use 100/200 watt amps cos they relied on them in order to be heard, that's just not the case in this day and age due to amps being mic'd up onstage etc.

Nah, not true. I have a 50W marshall and have to use a power attenuator to bring the volume down to a reasonable level, and still get the power amp breakup (which sounds best above 8.5 on the master on my amp - adds a little more gain to it).

If was using the head without an attenuator the other day, through a lowly 1x12" cab and drowned out a drummer before I got to number 1 on the volume dial.

Raw Power baby.

I'd recommend using a 30W amp, like a Peavey Classic 30. You need a decent bit of volume for when you're not mic'd at gigs, but also to have a decent sound at a reasonable volume or you'll either sound not-as-good, or piss off the sound engineer.

Laney make a 20W valve head called the TT20.

Craig

[Guest redmeat]

Unless you're playing death metal in Wembely stadium I can't see why you would need a 100W valve head. Steve from Real Shocks frequently drowns out the rest of his band with a 30W open back-cab Vox AC30. I'm thinking about getting a 22W head.

Another difference between heads and combos is that combos tend to be open backed whereas speaker cabs tend to be closed backed (though neither is always the case). With a closed back cab you get more low end and better projection out front but clean sounds can be a bit less sultry and 3D.

How much clean headroom you need? Do you need to stay totally clean at stage volumes or do you want a bit of breakup?

[eat your parents]

Thanks very much to all.

Red Meat - Having the ability in an amp to have a bit of break up on heavier clean strumming is probably my aim.

I have a 15w Vox Cambridge amp which is amazing for recording clean guitar yet can overdrive just slightly on punchy hard hitting.

The reason I'm asking is I've been looking at Orange amps, and they have a great 30w head. I just wanted to background check lower wattage heads.

50watts for a head is still amazingly loud. We were recording and someone came in, saying they felt they were at a "stadium rock consort"outside.

It ended the take, and my life.

[Ross]

Joey Santiago used to attack his amp during songs.. hence some of the sounds in certain songs.. There is a soung of him shaking his valve amp in one song but I can`t remember which off the top of my head.

[Guest redmeat]

Originally posted by Ross:

Joey Santiago used to attack his amp during songs.. hence some of the sounds in certain songs.. There is a soung of him shaking his valve amp in one song but I can`t remember which off the top of my head.

Vamos.

I love that sound! Danelectro make a spring reverb pedal with a pad specifically for kicking!

I have a 15w Vox Cambridge amp which is amazing for recording clean guitar yet can overdrive just slightly on punchy hard hitting.

Have you tried running it through the cab?

???????????????

I put my mates not so hot Fender champ 20W ss practice amp through my marshall cab and it sounded great. It was super loud as well. I gigged with this set-up once and it was pretty cool. Ian fae Josephine used it and was suitably impressed.

[Guest redmeat]

Originally posted by eat your parents:

50watts for a head is still amazingly loud. We were recording and someone came in, saying they felt they were at a "stadium rock consort"outside.

Yeah 50W is still crazy loud.

everything you need to know is here

[Tav]

I am considering getting a DSL 50 Head and I am definatly buying an attenuator. What does everyone use? THD Hot Plates or Marshalls power break?

[David]

Originally posted by redmeat:

I put my mates not so hot Fender champ 20W ss practice amp through my marshall cab and it sounded great. It was super loud as well. I gigged with this set-up once and it was pretty cool. Ian fae Josephine used it and was suitably impressed.

the speakers used can make a vast difference in the sound of am amp.

i noticed this when in captain toms, usually you get a laney head through a laney cab, which i am not too fond of (they get the job done though) one day i got to use the same laney head through a marshall cab, and there was a huge difference... turned a not so impressive amp into a decent sounding amp (though i still used a pedal for all my dirt)

Originally posted by Tav:

I am considering getting a DSL 50 Head and I am definatly buying an attenuator. What does everyone use? THD Hot Plates or Marshalls power break?

i have heard of more people using the THD than the marshall (going mainly on comments made on harmony central) so im guessing its probably the better (possibly cheaper?)

David

[craig deadenstereo]

Weber MASS. Cost me 110 quid imported + taxes, and the dollar is weaker now. If you want to wait til May 6th you can see it in action at Drakes.

www.legendarytones.com has a review of the THD and Weber ones. Says they smoke the power brake.

Craig

[eat your parents]

Originally posted by redmeat:

Have you tried running it through the cab?

???????????????

I put my mates not so hot Fender champ 20W ss practice amp through my marshall cab and it sounded great. It was super loud as well. I gigged with this set-up once and it was pretty cool. Ian fae Josephine used it and was suitably impressed.

Never knew you could do such things.

Then again my knowledge is limited to distortion pedals and mics, and even then I bet I could know a lot more.

You know Sandy, these different accounts cause confusion and, in my dreams, copulation.

There are so many nice ladies down here.... oh yeah!

[Tav]

Originally posted by craig deadenstereo:

Weber MASS. Cost me 110 quid imported + taxes, and the dollar is weaker now. If you want to wait til May 6th you can see it in action at Drakes.

www.legendarytones.com has a review of the THD and Weber ones. Says they smoke the power brake.

Craig

I checked out both reviews and I think the THD would be better for myself as apprently it handels bedroom level attenuation better. Though once I factor in price the Weber MASS may win. They both got 10/10 so I don't think I can go wrong either way.

[craig deadenstereo]

The MASS has more options you can choose though. You can choose a selectable impedeance for $10 more - lets you switch between 4 and 8 or 8 and 16 ohms. I found that feature handy. You can choose to get a 50W version which is cheaper than the 100W version.

That means it can bring a 50W head down to zero and just use the DI for recording, or bring a 100W head down to a gig ready level.

You have to remember that you might get a new head in future, or different cabs (I've had 2 8 ohm cabs and a 4 ohm cab since I bought the attenuator).

All the options are on www.webervst.com. They are really cool guys to deal with, though you have to import. Took me a fortnigth to get it from ordering. But then again, you can get THD products in Britain already. The Weber is much cheaper

though.

But, attenuators totally rule. Mine is a really big part of getting a good sound.

Craig

[Tav]

Well I am planning on getting a 50watt head so I would buying the 50watt model and then whatever impedence a Marshall is. Although I can't see myself buying another cab you never know what you are going to end up using. I think I might go along to that gig of yours to take a peek/hear what it is like.

[craig deadenstereo]

Yeah, I'll give you a demo and show you how it works.

Marshalls have selectable impedeances on both the amp and cabs.

Amps can be 4, 8 or 16 ohm, and the cab can be 4 or 16 ohm mono, or 8 ohm stereo.

If you're using one cab you set it to 4, or if you use two cabs, you set them to 16 ohms each, and when running the two in parallel it makes 4 which is what you set the amp to.

I found a place on the net selling DSL50s for just over 400 new, but can't remember where. I'll be able to find it agian, but am going to work now.

Craig

[Tav]

www.gak.co.uk have DSL50's for 492. I think that is the best deal I have been able to find so far.

[threeornothing]

Haha...I can't believe the current trend in 50W amps....I bought the 100W head just cos I thought that was the norm....I've blown mine twice on stage....and thats with good valves. correct impedence across head and speaker etc.....depends what you play....if you want that valvey saturated sound, stick in a valve preamp into your rig...

I guess if you really want an amp you can fucking crank to the limit..check out the 1 watt valve amp head (no shit)....it costs 400 like, which isn't that far off a 100W marhsall....

[soundian]

The first big gig I ever worked for was Iron Maiden at the Capitol. We spent 30 mins setting up a wall of Marshall 4x12s on each side of the drum riser, and they set up tiny 30-50 Watt Mesa Boogie combos behind them, poiting upstage, and miked them up. On further inspection all the speaker cabs were empty (which I suspected by the weight) and the only thing working on the amps was the power and standby lights.

[craig deadenstereo]

yeah, by all accounts a lot of bands do that.

Did anyone think that Metallica actually use 16 dual rectumfriers on stage?

I suppose it justs an image hing - looking back to when PAs at big concerts were only pumping the vocals, and the wal of stacks was to get the sound out.

I imagine stage volume levels are a lot lower now.

When we played at Potterow, which is one of the biggest (and least used since it's a union) venues in Edinburgh, the sound on stage was really quiet - we could talk to each other comfortably while we were playing. Apparently it was incredibly loud out front though.

I've read that having the volume levels as low as possible on stage makes the engineer's job a hell of a lot easier. Is that right?

If i get the opportunity, I figure that if I set my amp up at the side stage, pointing across, I can get the engineer to DI via my load box, then control the on stage volumes to whatever suits me.

As for the guy blowing a 100W head. Did you have that turned up full? If not there's probably something wrong. If it was, it's probably biased too hot.

I run a 50W marshall that's about 25 years old at full volume twice a week for a few hours and I've been on the same set of Sveltana valves for almost a year now. So if yours is blowing valves that often you should get it looked at as they're not cheap.

I know mine are going to blow a a gig and not a practice though.

Craig

[craig deadenstereo]

Originally posted by Keilan 303:

I guess if you really want an amp you can fucking crank to the limit..check out the 1 watt valve amp head (no shit)....it costs 400 like, which isn't that far off a 100W marhsall....

is that the univalve? That's a THD amp that lets you put any kind of tube you want in it. Apparently it sounds the business. Looks pretty good too. Supposedly doesn't have the headroom for a rock gig though. Which is why tehy made the bi-valve and the Flexi head.

Mollusc rock anyone?

Fuck me - that word doesn't look right.

Craig

[soundian]

Originally posted by craig deadenstereo:

I've read that having the volume levels as low as possible on stage makes the engineer's job a hell of a lot easier. Is that right?

If i get the opportunity, I figure that if I set my amp up at the side stage, pointing across, I can get the engineer to DI via my load box, then control the on stage volumes to whatever suits me.

Because mics don't just pick up only what they're supposed to, if what's going into them is roughly mixed it makes it easier. You're volume should be at the level where you can hear what you're playing over the drums without drowning them out. Unless you've got a loud drummer or a weak vocalist that works just fine.

Note to drummers: attacking cymbals like they've just raped your sister isn't clever.

Pointing your amp across stage I'm for, but I'm not sure about being plugged into your 'load box', sounds rude. You would need a cab sim on that to make it work properly I suspect. I'd just mic it myself.