Benji Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 This thread is opened on the back of a member's cause for concern.Ok so firstly; The thread only exists to provide purpose to 1 member, so I kinda expect a clean thread with no low blows etc. The debate will be about Online Opinions, do you take them as serious as others seem to do?When you make a post Online do you consider the implications it may cause to others beliefs or does your posts lie in the vain of your own beliefs, and accordingly you post your own beliefs.Well having been in a minor debate with a member over 'Goths' and seemingly the respect they deserve do I stand up for what I believe to be the truth or do I take into consideration the Goths that may be on this board? Well, to be honest, I don't like Goths, never have, never will, it's not a personal thing where I would go out of my way to harm them physically. But when a post is made on Goths that self harm I naturally think - Couldn't care less about people who hurt themselves to get attention or whatever the case is - I have my head firmly jammed in the elevator doors of real life to ever care about some phase that kids go through. That's not what concerns me though and don't hijack the topic, cos it aint about Goths.What does bother me is the single-minded concern people seem to have when online, they think because they have the saftey of not being directly involved in the topic they can make comments about other people that just aint true. When I make an opinionated comment I half expect the usual crowd to jump on some bandwagon and form a witty but funny reply. What I don't exect is someone construing my words and opinions the wrong way and taking them to heart so much that this thread is born.So the debate is simple, do we have to tiptoe around other people's beliefs in order for our opinions to have substance? Or do we consider the implications of what we say and take into account others beliefs and opinions when online?My answer is no. What we say online doesn't neccessarily mean what we actually think in life. Especially when the topic is about something that shouldn't come into direct conflict with others beliefs. I understand that self-harm is a serious problem. But it's not as serious a topic as Mass Neglect for our people who struggle everyday of their lives to get by in a World so dilluted it's lost all its natural colour and charecter.So I ask you.. What is your opinion on Online opinions. Should they be taken seriously when everyone has differant levels of seriousness? Should mild topics be openly discussed with a communal level of respect or do we take the net for what it is - a learning curve based on principles and moral misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseyBoi Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Tbh aberdeen music is a tad behind the times when it comes to this kinda thing and heres my reasoning whyEMOAs much as i hate emo~esk i see on these boards all the time "emo haters" who make posts stating they hate emo then post a link to something so far away from emo its hilarious ,then you get the bandwagon in that all agree that they hate emo and post even more links/pics of which they think are emo.When infact all posts made or gay/humorous/lame they certainly are NOT emo....Emo = A romantic non dark clothed wearing GOTH GOTH's are bams min we all know that and anyone who argues any dfrent are Goths hybriding into emoGood post above mate some nice ponts all my advice to you would be, Change the word Cunt into something elseFor exampleFuck you you cunt its my opionion....(will never win an argument)OrExcuse me Snotrag you got a problem pm me(saves your thread being closed)You are not a stipud lad bux so id suggest when arguing back dont go for the direct insults and use your technique of arguing betterAnd as for the lad who thinks your the most racist/homophobic/Culturaly retarded OBVIOUSLY doesnt know you so why let it effect you....He is the one who has real issues if hes gonna get this worked up and excited over goth insults and your honest opinion on them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onlynik Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Online opinions are just that - Opinions online, most people wanting to sound big and clever, or saying something to cause shock and waiting to see the fall out, some people post their true thoughts, but will have this online persona. Aberdeen Music suffers from this, but I think its due to the nature of the site. Most users of this site know other users and are quite willing to try and show off infront of other people, it suffers from people and their little cliques. I don't think AM is the right place for a mental health discussion, the are other, better forums for that. AM is a forum for Aberdeen Music and thats all, the wasteland is just a shitty little bit added on to the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeid Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I'm sure Bobyn is female, but I could be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Now hold on!!Your making very wayward accusations based on 1 thread. I think you need to wise up and think about what your saying as Im in no way a bigot, pig-ignorant, and whatever else your calling me. I clearly said that self-harm is a serious problem, but my point was followed up by saying, it's not as big a problem as others. Fair enough I took the piss, but I'm not about to apologise over it and let your opinion influence mine. You really should think about what your saying as I in no way want to continue talking to a crackpot who thinks they know me when they know fuck all. You will not sit back and let people say this? Grow up, people have said it, and will continue to say it regardless of what you want. If your a Goth, and you self-harm, don't come in here and winge about it to those who don't understand your pain, get help and be free from your obvious misery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 i really can't see this thread lasting very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 call me when society rejects you for the inhumane opinions you hold so dear' date=' and you find yourself slicing up the soles of your feet so noone will know your secret shame. try walking on pus-y gashes and then tell me self harm is hysterically funny.[/quote']See, you were doing OK up to this bit. This is the thing that boils my piss, the overblown language. This seems designed to get the maximum effect from others, trying to evoke sympathy and make something which is YOUR problem, someone else's problem.Waxing lyrical about a "secret shame" while going into graphic detail on a public message board about it doesn't really cut it, I'm afraid. I'll pass on the option of slicing up my feet, seems a pretty futile and self-defeating thing to do. I choose not to, so could you.One last thing, I've worked in the field of mental health for nearly 5 years and seen every trick in the book. I've seen people self-harm before in a variety of ways and it was their choice to do so. It doesn't get a reaction from me, and it never will. This is part of my training. Empathy, yes. Sympathy? No chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 i really can't see this thread lasting very long.I hope it does, it's got potential if people can keep cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 See' date=' you were doing OK up to this bit. This is the thing that boils my piss, the overblown language. This seems designed to get the maximum effect from others, trying to evoke sympathy and make something which is YOUR problem, someone else's problem.Waxing lyrical about a "secret shame" while going into graphic detail on a public message board about it doesn't really cut it, I'm afraid. I'll pass on the option of slicing up my feet, seems a pretty futile and self-defeating thing to do. I choose not to, so could you.One last thing, I've worked in the field of mental health for nearly 5 years and seen every trick in the book. I've seen people self-harm before in a variety of ways and it was their choice to do so. It doesn't get a reaction from me, and it never will. This is part of my training. Empathy, yes. Sympathy? No chance.[/quote']and fair enough but is the wasteland the place to have this debate? it's obviously an issue which deeply affects peoples lives and which can't be solved by anonymous aberdeen music users without offending someone along the way. hell i wouldn't dream of commenting on self harm as it's something i know fuck all about. the one thing i'm sure everyone can agree on though is that not every so called 'goth' self harms. to stereotype them all as such can only belittle the emotional problems of those that do self harm surely. so yea, it's a delicate subject which can only be examined through reasoned and restrained discussion not through calling each other names and typecasting(not saying jake was doing any of this, his is just the post i replied to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neubeatz Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I've worked in the field of mental health for nearly 5 years and seen every trick in the book..It's the tricks outside the book that you have to watch for, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 You know something, this all started with a jibe at Goths.. I never even knew about the self-harm part untill I delved deeper into it. I then realised that I was in a bitty deeper than had first planned. But Goths are more likely to self harm, so in a round-a-bout way it's a Goth thing, and not a self harm thing. I pity people who self-harm, I knew this dude who used to burn a clipper for about a minute then place the metal on his arm as long as it was hot. Total fool, partial Goth, and rich kid. Maybe this doesn't encapsulate all self-harmers, but my own personal theory on it is; Sheltered kids that have no issues in life turn to this as punishment for not having problems, cause at the end of the day problems and dealing with problems is charecter building. I know nothing about self-harm other than it's harmfull! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Well' date=' to be honest, I don't like Goths, never have, never will, it's not a personal thing where I would go out of my way to harm them physically. But when a post is made on Goths that self harm I naturally think - Couldn't care less about people who hurt themselves to get attention or whatever the case is - I have my head firmly jammed in the elevator doors of real life to ever care about some phase that kids go through. That's not what concerns me though and don't hijack the topic, cos it aint about Goths.[/quote']Just out of interest how can you decide you dislike every Goths, seems a bit narrow minded, I know lots of Goths and they're not all alike, they may choose to dress a certain way and listen to a certain type of music but personalitywise they're all different, they dont all meet some kind of stereotype. My brothers a goth and he's a generally pretty happy go lucky guy, intelligent and earns a lot of cash, I'm intrigued as to why you'd judge someone on their dress and music taste and not their personality, that seems very narrow minded. Would you say, 'I hate all black people' or would you judge them as people first ?CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I've never liked Goths.. I dunno I guess I need to be more open minded to them. The Goths I've met are really snobby and have no time for people who don't follow their path I've found.. Sure Im not saying they are all like that, but the select few I've met have put me off them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neubeatz Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 They're just peeps Bux, just like you and me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseyBoi Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 No goths are not like you and i goths are like fake witches..Kids who rebel from there parents and its us that has to pay.For a start"Im sick of being like everyone else im going to be dfrent," By dressing in dark clothes and playing out the fantasy of picnics in graveyards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 people like me are lambasted by moderators as "filling this site with rubbish" etcthis thread.........fuck off www.aberdeen-music.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I can't be bothered reading all these really long replies, but what REALLY annoys me is how most users on this site think that any controversial opinions are merely posted to provoke a reaction from other people.Not everyone is this sad. And yes, I'm sure some people WOULD say the same thing to you in person, so please can everyone stop thinking that anyone with genuine extreme views is merely a cowardly "rEbeL" for posting it on the internet. Maybe if you gave them your address, they could go and say it to your face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 No goths are not like you and i goths are like fake witches..Kids who rebel from there parents and its us that has to pay.For a start"Im sick of being like everyone else im going to be dfrent' date='" By dressing in dark clothes and playing out the fantasy of picnics in graveyards[/quote']How do you have to pay exactly ? Every single subculture from metalheads to emo to punks could fall into the category: "I'm sick of being like everyone else im going to be different,"CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Craig C Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 What do I think about online opinions? the same as real life opinions - live and let live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsadecacahuete Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Would you say' date=' 'I hate all black people' or would you judge them as people first . [/quote']being a goth is a choice. being born black/white/purple/retarded isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 being a goth is a choice. being born black/white/purple/retarded isn't.Yes but you're still judging them on something different from them as a person, which is surely fundamentally wrong. The way someone dresses and the music they listen to isnt a reason to judge someone as a person.CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hon Jonda Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 A ned is just an enlightened former goth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsadecacahuete Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Yes but you're still judging them on something different from them as a person' date=' which is surely fundamentally wrong. The way someone dresses and the music they listen to isnt a reason to judge someone as a person.CheersStuart[/quote']no, but it's a fairly good indication as to what someone will be like, seeing as how i view 'goth' as a lifestyle choice, not just a 'look'. i similarly think generally about anyone who practices scientology. fine, there may be one or two people i'd be willing to spend time with but because of my own opinions, i would have so little respect for them that trying to find that one or two people would be a monumental effort on my part.life's too short to waste time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 no' date=' but it's a fairly good indication as to what someone will be like, seeing as how i view 'goth' as a lifestyle choice, not just a 'look'. i similarly think generally about anyone who practices scientology. fine, there may be one or two people i'd be willing to spend time with but because of my own opinions, i would have so little respect for them that trying to find that one or two people would be a monumental effort on my part.life's too short to waste time...[/quote']Interesting that you view Goth as a lifestyle, in what way is it a lifestyle ? I'm just interested because I dont know any Goths who live a lifestyle, just some who dress up and listen to the music but have nice jobs, and apart from that are very similar to anyone else.CheersStuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gasss Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 If anyone is interested in actually reading the article which sparked this fantastic debate, it's available here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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