Another question about Audition/seperate files.

[Hog]

Sorry for all the questions but Im stuck.

Received the bass and drum tracks on cd from Toms.

All the seperate parts i.e. snare, kick, cymbal, bass etc are all on one file so I have to cut it up and match them up together. Im trying this on Adobe Audition with zero success. I have no idea regarding how to align the different parts. Im getting pissed off because I need the seperate parts all in together by Wednesday (for when we do the vocals)

If I could simply have the different parts all in alignment i.e. track 1 kick, track 2 snare, etc etc then I would then be able to make for example track 8 guitar track 9 other guitar etc. Allowing me to add new tracks but still letting me play around with the other tracks i.e. not mixed.

Please help.

[Stripey]

Do you mean all the drum mics have come mixed down into 1 single wave file? where they are all playing at the same time, or 1 wave file with the kick part then the snare part after it?

[Hog]

' date=' or 1 wave file with the kick part then the snare part after it?[/quote']

Yep, that is the one.

[Stripey]

That's a really wierd way to send someone splits! Presumably each part will be the same length, so you could just divide the total length by the number of tracks to work out the exact points you need to cut it at?

[Hog]

That's a really wierd way to send someone splits! Presumably each part will be the same length' date=' so you could just divide the total length by the number of tracks to work out the exact points you need to cut it at?[/quote']

It is. Yeah, I could write down the length of each track then cut and paste it into seperate tracks, it just seems a very labour intensive way of doing it.

[Stripey]

Try this and see if it's any use to you: http://www.wavesurgeon.com/download.html

It will let you set markers manually to divide the file and then save out each "segment" as a seperate wave file.

[soundian]

Copy tracks 2-8 onto track 2, then you can find the end of track two easily (at the end of track 1), copy and paste tracks 3-8 onto 3 etc.

That way you only have to find one point.

[Hog]

Ok, will try that. Thanks guys.

[HateEvent]

Any word on the Randall or is it to be dual Mesa recordings? 8)

[Hog]

No word yet man. If its ok with you it will be Mesa.

If I can get these Files sorted! argh!

[HateEvent]

Yeah that's cool with me.

I thought up a new part for under the start of the Point Being solo... we'll see if ya think it works or not

[Hog]

Check yer MSN Jimmer

[ghost]

Hey Hog, how's it going?

Sounds like you've got plenty tips to keep you going... but...

If you know the tempo and time sequence change the Audition view from mm:ss to beats and bars (View menu-> Display Time Format -> Beats & Bars). Might make it easier to pinpoint the splits and if you have snap (snap to frames) switched on it makes cutting the file a piece of piss.

Sounds blimmin weird that Capt. Toms does it that way, but each to their own eh?

Glad Audition is getting used!

[Guest Gasss]

I did this with a captain toms recording. If you look closely on a wave editor, you will see tiny momentary blips marking the divison between tracks. These are barely audible square waves that sound like a small pop. If you zoom right in, you can cut each track to the nearest sample and get the start points exact.

[IamScrooge]

Why on earth do they give you the tracks in this format???

Silly, silly, SILLY recording studio!

[threeornothing]

It should be easy enough, you just need a set of headphones, a better sequencer (like Cubase! Editing in Audition is plain crap) and a bit of patience.

Find the end of each track, and make cuts, then drag each cut part into its own track, and lock them all to start at 0 seconds, don't worry about it being in sync yet.

Solo each track and identify what they all are. Label this on your mixer and "bounce" the audio down so you get a new WAV file with just the one track, and named in correspondance with whatever you labelled your channel with (ie. kick, snare, rack, floor, OH 1, OH 2) Right click > audio > bounce selecton .. in cubase sx

Solo OH1 and OH 2 (the mics which were over the whole kit, there will be no apparent peaks in the WAV file for this unlike the toms which will peak when the toms are hit, but may be picking everything up at other times, albeit very rumbly, and in tune with the particular drum)

Trim your OH channels right up to the first click. Zoom right down to single sample accuracy and make your cut just before the wav peak rises, with the wavform at unison (zero, centre line). As these channels recorded essentially the same thing, trimming these up to the clicks should be enough to get these 2 tracks in sync. Lock the start back to 0 seconds and give it a listen, pan one hard left and one hard right, give it a listen in headphones and make sure the stereo image sounds right. IE. if you drummer is right handed and the snare sounds more to the left, then the OH's will be panned round the wrong way, so pan accordingly, the track you had to pan left rename as OH Left, and vice versa.

Everything can be done off the overheads. Probably easiest to start with the snare. Trim right up to the first hit of the snare, keep the channel muted, give the overheads a listen and listen out for the first snare hit. Stop, move your cursor line to the beginning of the snare in the overheads, there may be a slight rise in the wav form, but this mostly has to be done with ears. Get that position, switch your snapping to "Magnetic cursor" and lock the snare to the cursor, unmute the snare and give it a listen. If it seems off. Zoom in very close and make minute adjustments, 100 samples at a time or less (there are 44100 samples per second, so this is mega accuracy) Keep listening, keep your snare channel low so you can distinguish being played the same time as the snare in the overhead. Of course this isn't 100% correct because obviously theres the speed of sound to consider etc....so once you've got it dead on with the OH, you could always shift it back a few samples, nothing major, but the space between the snare and the OH's isn't exactly going to create much delay (I wouldn't think, what do I know)

Repeat the same for the Kick drum, should be easy enough again, then the toms. The toms will no doubt be rumbling like hell, I'd trim out any rumbling where the toms aren't being hit. Rely on reverb and/or the overheads for ambience.

As for the bass, if the bass player was playing along with the drummer, the drum mics will have no doubt picked him up, so just play around, cutting up to where he starts and where you hear the bass sounding in the ovehead mics. If the bass was loud, this might ruin the kick mic recording, the recordings I've heard have so much spill in the kick mic that by the time you've EQ'd it out, you're left with a really tinny crappy sound, if you leave it in it might add too much rumbling, and if you gate the kick, it'll sound worse having a rumbling bass coming on every time the kick is struck. It's metal music, so the kick should probably be triggered anyway

Before I had a multiple input sound card I had to convert all my stuff from my 8 track 2 tracks at a time, so I've had a bit of practice, but its pretty easy to pick up, its just muting all the other tracks and just finding whats best to work with.

If I ever go to capt toms again I am taking my ADAT, fuck having in one track!!

Lets hear it for standards...

[Hog]

Thanks for the advice. It sounds easy but I really struggling. Keilan, you have been good to me regarding advice but (cheeky question where Im chancing my luck) could I like pay you to do this because its all a bit above my limited knowledge (I hit my laptop last night) lol.

Have tried the suggestions but Im getting in knots.

BTW Im always harrassing our drummer to get triggers but hes not up for it. I heard that mixing a triggered kick and some acoustic kick is the best way. Also using a tent! haha. Also a nice rug for the bass drums.

[threeornothing]

Check your PM's dude I don't mind doing that (its my idea of fun!! )

Heh, do you know if those SYL studio vids are still online? Was a really cool look into recording. The rug will be thrown over a table to create a sort of tube which will effectively extend the length of the kick drum (some folks tape two kick drums together) will be a massive sound!! I'd imagine they have at least 3 mics on the kick alone, a D112 proably inside, U47FET way back from the "tube" and probably an NS10 speaker acting as a sub-bass mic...I've even heard of the other beater side of the skin being mic'd with a 57 aswell. Would need to reoil your pedal between takes if you do that

[Guest Gasss]

It should be easy enough' date=' you just need a set of headphones, a better sequencer (like Cubase! Editing in Audition is plain crap) and a bit of patience.

Find the end of each track, and make cuts, then drag each cut part into its own track, and lock them all to start at 0 seconds, don't worry about it being in sync yet.

Solo each track and identify what they all are. Label this on your mixer and "bounce" the audio down so you get a new WAV file with just the one track, and named in correspondance with whatever you labelled your channel with (ie. kick, snare, rack, floor, OH 1, OH 2) Right click > audio > bounce selecton .. in cubase sx

Solo OH1 and OH 2 (the mics which were over the whole kit, there will be no apparent peaks in the WAV file for this unlike the toms which will peak when the toms are hit, but may be picking everything up at other times, albeit very rumbly, and in tune with the particular drum)

Trim your OH channels right up to the first click. Zoom right down to single sample accuracy and make your cut just before the wav peak rises, with the wavform at unison (zero, centre line). As these channels recorded essentially the same thing, trimming these up to the clicks should be enough to get these 2 tracks in sync. Lock the start back to 0 seconds and give it a listen, pan one hard left and one hard right, give it a listen in headphones and make sure the stereo image sounds right. IE. if you drummer is right handed and the snare sounds more to the left, then the OH's will be panned round the wrong way, so pan accordingly, the track you had to pan left rename as OH Left, and vice versa.

Everything can be done off the overheads. Probably easiest to start with the snare. Trim right up to the first hit of the snare, keep the channel muted, give the overheads a listen and listen out for the first snare hit. Stop, move your cursor line to the beginning of the snare in the overheads, there may be a slight rise in the wav form, but this mostly has to be done with ears. Get that position, switch your snapping to "Magnetic cursor" and lock the snare to the cursor, unmute the snare and give it a listen. If it seems off. Zoom in very close and make minute adjustments, 100 samples at a time or less (there are 44100 samples per second, so this is mega accuracy) Keep listening, keep your snare channel low so you can distinguish being played the same time as the snare in the overhead. Of course this isn't 100% correct because obviously theres the speed of sound to consider etc....so once you've got it dead on with the OH, you could always shift it back a few samples, nothing major, but the space between the snare and the OH's isn't exactly going to create much delay (I wouldn't think, what do I know)

Repeat the same for the Kick drum, should be easy enough again, then the toms. The toms will no doubt be rumbling like hell, I'd trim out any rumbling where the toms aren't being hit. Rely on reverb and/or the overheads for ambience.

As for the bass, if the bass player was playing along with the drummer, the drum mics will have no doubt picked him up, so just play around, cutting up to where he starts and where you hear the bass sounding in the ovehead mics. If the bass was loud, this might ruin the kick mic recording, the recordings I've heard have so much spill in the kick mic that by the time you've EQ'd it out, you're left with a really tinny crappy sound, if you leave it in it might add too much rumbling, and if you gate the kick, it'll sound worse having a rumbling bass coming on every time the kick is struck. It's metal music, so the kick should probably be triggered anyway

Before I had a multiple input sound card I had to convert all my stuff from my 8 track 2 tracks at a time, so I've had a bit of practice, but its pretty easy to pick up, its just muting all the other tracks and just finding whats best to work with.

If I ever go to capt toms again I am taking my ADAT, fuck having in one track!!

Lets hear it for standards...[/quote']

you don't need to line up the drums using the recorded sound. This will lead to phase problems. A single sound will not hit all the mics at exactly the same instant. There is already a point there to mark the exact beginning of each track. Its in the middle of the silence between the tracks. Read my post!

[threeornothing]

you don't need to line up the drums using the recorded sound. This will lead to phase problems. A single sound will not hit all the mics at exactly the same instant. There is already a point there to mark the exact beginning of each track. Its in the middle of the silence between the tracks. Read my post!

Aye posted before I saw your post!! If there is some sort of audible click at the start of each track that must mean they existed as seperate wave files at some point and were collated for reasons unknown to man nor beast!!!

As for the phase problems, you always have your phase reverse switch, although I've always found you get a tighter sound syncing your kick and snare with the overheads anyway..it's all shaping your sound, and can be used to effect.

[soundian]

There must be some form of count-in as well, drummer clicking sticks, whatever. Syncing them up is the easiest way.

[threeornothing]

In my post thats what I meant when i said trim the overheads up to the first click, meant the first click of the drummer sticks...realise that may have been a bit vague....although the DI'd bass isn't going to have any click in it, that'll be the pain, unless it starts on a downbeat.

My advice, trigger it all anyway! I've got a cool 55GB worth of samples from Electrical Audio (Steve Albini's studio), so you could plaster "DRUMS ENGINEERED BY STEVE ALBINI!!!" to the front cover...ought to make 1 or 2 people buy it

[Guest Gasss]

As for the phase problems' date=' you always have your phase reverse switch, although I've always found you get a tighter sound syncing your kick and snare with the overheads anyway..it's all shaping your sound, and can be used to effect.[/quote']

You can also do the opposite. I heard Steve Albini delays the ambient drummics to give a bigger reverb sound

[Guest Gasss]

If there is some sort of audible click at the start of each track that must mean they existed as seperate wave files at some point and were collated for reasons unknown to man nor beast!!!

This is just the crazy way that the old Fostex FD recorders exports multitrack files. I have an FD-4 - It uses a serial cable and is from the days before USB!

[Hog]

You can also do the opposite. I heard Steve Albini delays the ambient drummics to give a bigger reverb sound

Reverb on kicks sounds awesome, not sure about reverb on kicks for metal though.