National Service - Should it be reinstated to improve society?

[Snakebite]

Heres a different topic for debate - National Service - Should it be reinstated to improve society?

Around the world today several countries still require you to carry out upto 2 years of national service between the age of 16-18 years. This is intended to teach respect, honor and a sense of discipline to young peoples lives as well as providing an adequate military service for the country.

The UK up until 1960 required men to carry out national service, see link below that details the history of National Service in the UK:

http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/pages/nat-service.html

These days the growing number of teenagers that either are constantly in trouble, have no respect for their elders of which some now have ASBO's issued against them, is getting ridiculous.

Some people say that our children are not being taught any values because either the parents are have the same attitude or their children have no respect for them due to external influences.

Before national service was scrapped there was very little trouble in our neighbourhoods and people didnt have to hide behind locked doors because our children were taught to respect others.

So should we bring it back to teach our children respect, honor & discipline?

[Daniel]

singapore has a good system, everyone man between the age of 18-40 have to do 2 weeks service a year. but they also have full time soldiers

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

Heres a different topic for debate - National Service - Should it be reinstated to improve society?

Around the world today several countries still require you to carry out upto 2 years of national service between the age of 16-18 years. This is intended to teach respect' date=' honor and a sense of discipline to young peoples lives as well as providing an adequate military service for the country.

The UK up until 1960 required men to carry out national service, see link below that details the history of National Service in the UK:

[url']http://www.national-army-museum.ac....at-service.html

These days the growing number of teenagers that either are constantly in trouble, have no respect for their elders of which some now have ASBO's issued against them, is getting ridiculous.

Some people say that our children are not being taught any values because either the parents are have the same attitude or their children have no respect for them due to external influences.

Before national service was scrapped there was very little trouble in our neighbourhoods and people didnt have to hide behind locked doors because our children were taught to respect others.

So should we bring it back to teach our children respect, honor & discipline?

No.

I've managed to turn out perfectly well without national service, as have all the folk I hang around with (not in council estates terrorising auld folk I might add). Why should the army do the job parents should be doing? Why should prefectly well turned out teenagers be condemned to being shouted at by some sadistic cunt who thinks he has the authority (and right) to treat people like shit because he has a few gold arrows (can't think of the proper name at the moment) on his arm? I'd have hated national service, in fact it'd probably have made me turn out worse.

No, what we need is for certain types of people to not be allowed to bring up kids. Or steralised even. May sound a BIT extreme, but let's face it, there ARE families out there who basically breed criminals.

[Snakebite]

What if national service was limited to say troublesome teenagers or maybe a lesser approach of Boot Camp instead for them to teach them to respect others.

The main reason some children dont respect others is because their parents dont respect others therefore the children follow by example so as generations pass it just gets worse.

[Snakebite]

No.

I've managed to turn out perfectly well without national service' date=' as have all the folk I hang around with (not in council estates terrorising auld folk I might add). Why should the army do the job parents should be doing? Why should prefectly well turned out teenagers be condemned to being shouted at by some sadistic cunt who thinks he has the authority (and right) to treat people like shit because he has a few gold arrows (can't think of the proper name at the moment) on his arm? I'd have hated national service, in fact it'd probably have made me turn out worse.

No, what we need is for certain types of people to not be allowed to bring up kids. Or steralised even. May sound a BIT extreme, but let's face it, there ARE families out there who basically breed criminals.[/quote']

Sometimes you have to be harsh to teach discipline & respect, thats why the british army is the most respected military force in the western world.

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

What if national service was limited to say troublesome teenagers or maybe a lesser approach of Boot Camp instead for them to teach them to respect others.

The main reason some children dont respect others is because their parents dont respect others therefore the children follow by example so as generations pass it just gets worse.

I actually think it's cos the children don't get respect from their parents. Why the fuck should you respect people if no one respects you? Parents not showing respect to others is most likely a contributing factor too, but I think it's ultimately the result of being ignored/treated like shit at home.

Anyway, if the deciding factor is "troublesome", then surely what we're really asking for here is for juvenile criminals to be... put into juvenile detention centres? Which they surely are already?

I would go for an overhaul of detention centre methods, and then send kids there sooner than they obviously currently are. And then if they remain little cunts, put them down like the daaaaawgs they are.

[Afro Droid]

I 100% believe it would be a good thing. It'd teach some respect for self and others. I'd do it.

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

Sometimes you have to be harsh to teach discipline & respect' date=' thats why the british army is the most respected military force in the western world.[/quote']

Nope. That's the same train of thought that makes people think you have to be an utter cunt to people to make them work efficiently.

Being bawled at by some twat wouldn't have taught me discipline, it'd have made me feel utterly worthless. The most I needed to teach me not to do something again was a smack on the bum. But that has taught me that it's right to use force. Which is probably why I used to punch my TV off the wall when I'd be getting beat by the computer on computer games.

[Afro Droid]

I've managed to turn out perfectly well without national service' date=' as have all the folk I hang around with (not in council estates terrorising auld folk I might add). Why should the army do the job parents should be doing? [/quote']

Good points, but some parents refuse to do their jobs as parents and take resonsibility for what they've brought into the world, and we all suffer.

[Afro Droid]

Being bawled at by some twat wouldn't have taught me discipline' date=' it'd have made me feel utterly worthless.

[/quote']

That's not how it works - I have a number of friends in the military - they break you down to build you back up again.

[Snakebite]

Nope. That's the same train of thought that makes people think you have to be an utter cunt to people to make them work efficiently.

Being bawled at by some twat wouldn't have taught me discipline' date=' it'd have made me feel utterly worthless. The most I needed to teach me not to do something again was a smack on the bum. But that has taught me that it's right to use force. Which is probably why I used to punch my TV off the wall when I'd be getting beat by the computer on computer games.[/quote']

If you have a troublesome teenager that wont listen to anyone you have to literally knock them off of their little perch by teaching humiliation if only to get them to listen to you so you can then teach them respect.

Albeit the army's way of doing this may be old fashioned but it works. After initial training you have turned them into some one that respects others and feels they are respected as part of a team of people.

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

Good points' date=' but some parents refuse to do their jobs as parents and take resonsibility for what they've brought into the world, and we all suffer.[/quote']

I completely agree, but I'd rather just stop these folk from being allowed to have kids. And any that already have them, give them to folk who can't have kids.

Fuck, I'm turning into Stalin or something.

That's not how it works - I have a number of friends in the military - they break you down to build you back up again.

It wouldn't work for everyone though. Basically the ones who shouldn't need to be in national service in the first place mind!

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

If you have a troublesome teenager that wont listen to anyone you have to literally knock them off of their little perch by teaching humiliation if only to get them to listen to you so you can then teach them respect.

Albeit the army's way of doing this may be old fashioned but it works. After initial training you a have turned then into some one that respects others and feels they are respected as part of a team of people.

That last clause is something I didn't think about to be honest. However, my main argument against national service is that it'd be much more worthwhile finding ways of making sure it wasn't even needed, ie doing something about shit parents.

I dunno... I just feel there's a lot more to the increasing amount of little cunts than just the lack of national service. It's a much wider cultural change thingy.

Plus, if it weren't for the lack of national service, punk in the UK may not have happened. I only say that cos I'm listening to The Clash just now, and I'd hate to think of a Clashless world.

[Benji]

It's a good idea, but then we wouldn't get quality shows like 'little britain'

[delboy]

i reckon we should bring back rationing, the three day week and give the trade unions loads of power like they used to have

sideburns, big 'helicopter' collars, brown national health glasses and y fronts should become fashionable again an all.

[Hog]

Some countries must cause problems for folk who are trying to build a career then have to spend a couple of years away. Yeah, I reckon it would be better for wasters.

[Sue Denim..]

I've tried not to add to this but I feel that I have to.

I spent nearly 8 years in the Army and I can tell you it is the most professional army in the world for a reason, we are all volunteers. That's how basic training works. The bottom line is, you wanted to join. You want to serve your country and you want to be the best in your unit.

I served with the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps across Europe and I've worked with other members of the armed forces from countries which have mandatory subscription and I can tell you, there is a marked difference in attitude between those who volunteered and those who were forced.

A volunteer really is better than 10 forced men. I know, I served with them. I certainly didn't want my life put on the line by someone who doesn't give a shit and just wants to do his time and go home.

We need a professional Army, not a rehabilitation centre for bad lads. I wouldn't be happy arming some young shit-bag who has been given the choice of joining the army or going to jail.

[Guest Neubeatz]

All babies should be given acid and then microchipped at birth.

[Lucius]

No fucking way.

To echo the comments of someone earlier i turned out just fine without any need fror military service.

Whereas my cousin who was a quiet shy guy before he joined the army and then got put in military prison for choking out new recruits with a belt and forcing them to perform sexual acts on each other.

Also some other people i have known that have been in the army have been the most fucked up people i have ever met.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Of course there shouldn't be national service... What if you don't want to serve yr country by becoming a trained killer?

[Guest tv tanned]

A citizen has a duty to pay taxes and obey the laws of society.

Beyond that any service to the community should be voluntary.

This way people will be committed to doing a good job, which they would not be if they were being forced into doing something.

[Guest]

I don't think it should be imposed.

I do, however, think that laws on young offenders should be a hell of a lot stricter. Stuff young offenders units... send the buggers to prison...

[Alkaline]

I would do it if required without question, however i don't think in a country as small as ours that we would need conscription these days, unless in some severe war.

[Guest tv tanned]

I do' date=' however, think that laws on young offenders should be a hell of a lot stricter. Stuff young offenders units... send the buggers to prison...[/quote']

For every offence?

Our prisons are currently overcrowded, squalid shitholes.

If you subscribe to the notion that we should just punish, punish, punish and not seek to rehabilitate, then sending everyone to prison for their crimes is probably the only solution you can see.

Many people go to prison and come out as a bigger criminal than when they went in.

Frankly I think any opportunity we have to segregate young offenders from hardened criminals should be taken.

[Guest]

For every offence?

Our prisons are currently overcrowded' date=' squalid shitholes.

If you subscribe to the notion that we should just punish, punish, punish and not seek to rehabilitate, then sending everyone to prison for their crimes is probably the only solution you can see.

Many people go to prison and come out as a bigger criminal than when they went in.

Frankly I think any opportunity we have to segregate young offenders from hardened criminals should be taken.[/quote']

Okay... the murderous ones and the ones responcible for repeated theft offenses.