Marsh

Word to that. There are too many of the aforementioned for my liking. Nah, that just shows Religion is always a "hot topic" (and rules the world, but that's a different story) and the President's son is hell bent on emulating what his father did in the early 90's! Agreed and agreed.

I agree, Dave. There a whole "Emperors new clothes" thing with Bill Hicks. Instant student cred in one handy VHS video. "Oh, but it's so funny - you just don't get it" Aye, I do. I just don't see the humour in one guy brutalising everything in sight including his audience. The fact that someone has said "you had to be there at the time" pretty much sums it up for me. To me that's indicative of the fact that the material is either a) Dated or b) You have to be in the "Bill Hicks Appreciation Society" to enjoy it, as it's oh so funny but can only be appreciated by a select few who were "in on the gag" "back in the day." Saying you like Bill Hicks when meeting a stranger is a safe bet - they'll think you're cool and enjoy "edgy comedy." You'll have instant cred amongst others who enjoy the delights of this "alternative comedian" who never made it to the big stage. Again, never made it big, therefore popular with students and uber cool folk - "You mean you've never heard of Bill Hicks?" Well I like Denis Leary who is the uncoolest, most hated guy in comedy who "sold out." I feel like part of an exclusive club. Christ, I almost feel like a Bill Hicks fan.

Indeed. Although the sound could have been better for Chino they rocked incredibly hard.

Disappointed you think I accept mediocrity............. I once saw Linkin Park supporting the Deftones. Great gig.

That didn't take long, did it?

I'm a fan of Denis Leary. He plagarises a lot of Hicks' material (or copied it word for word, depending on what account of it you read) but tones it down a wee bit and since he's married with kids he delves into family life as well. Some of his stories about his kids are fantastic. He rants and raves but it's not as aggressive as Hicks - Leary is almost like a cariciture at times. For me he is a more bearable alternative to Bill Hicks. No doubt that will go down well with the Hicks' brigade, but there you go. No Cure For Cancer and Lock & Load are recommended Leary offerings. Andrew Dice Clay is another Yank comedian I find amusing - not just for the x - rated nursery ryhmes. Live in New York is brilliant. I agree with the earlier point about Al Murray - I used to despise the guy but his stand up show is hilarious and I even like his Saturday night show now. Don't remember seeing Top Buzzer mentioned here before? That is quality British Comedy. Written by Johhny Vaughan and featuring loads of familiar faces it is a quality alternatibve to "Ideal" with Johnny Vegas. And it's only 4 on Play just now - highly recommended.

Land Speed Record sounding like The Walk of Life? Brain Box = beyond repair.

That's what it's all about, dude! Well said. But from where I'm standing............... Aye, Def Leppard are still beyond shite!

Anyone else see this last night at Drummonds? Best tribute band i've ever seen. I'm not the biggest fan of "tributes" as such, but by my ears they did a note - by note account of a Green Day show and the frontman had Billie Joe down to a tee. Very enjoyable. I heard that last night was their last show - Would be a pity if it was as they are fantastic and I would really like to see them again and bring some other punters who would enjoy it as much as myself and my mates last night.

I've said all I need to say. Stick to your Sigur Ros, junior.

Okay, let's get this knocked on the head if you're going to be smart: You originally said: How the fuck can you FACTUALLY say that people weren't "taking their message seriously?" Is it not okay to take in what the band are saying while moshing? If you are shouting along to every word as if your life depends on it one would safely assume that you are "taking in the message." And you must be a right fucking laugh if you think people jumping constitutes being an idiot. At a rock gig? At a FUCKING RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE GIG? Zack knew just as well as anyone that folk came to their gigs for a mosh and a bounce. Morello positively encourages movement and safe moshing at gigs. So, no, in actual fact your post was not based on fact. You cannot factually say that the crowd were taking in the Rage "message" and they were being "idiots." And my post was not based on idiocy. I'll let you into a wee secret here - Rage's music makes people want to move / mosh / bounce / slam dance / whatever you want to call it. It doesn't make people want to stand and stroke their chin and think "hhhmmmm - good message they're conyeying there." Oh, I get what the band were about. Seeing a picture on an album sleeve of a monk burning himself to death made me investiage the image further. Hearing all these refernces in the songs made me check out the meanings. The mailouts I got from Rage all contained useful information and knowledge. Che Guevarra was often used as a symbol by Rage and I got off my arse and actually investigated who this guy was because of that. All when I was still at school. So don't tell me I don't know what the band were about. It's not a case of "rather jumping about than taking in the message" - you go to a gig to jump about. Like I said of all bands Rage were a prime candidate of a band you'd see for a big slice of pit action. During the gig you'd shout along to every word and take it all in while jumping about - multi tasking you see. On the way out you'd get handed a flyer of good causes which you could check out if you were interested. You didn't have to sign a clasue that said "I will fully digest all the political issues and ideaologies presented to me" before you attended a Rage gig or bought one of their records. Like I said ages ago in this thread - loads of people love Rage for their monstorous riffs and bounceability factor. What's wrong with that? Personally i'm probably about 99% into the music and 1% into the politics and "message" I'm fully aware that "their" are plently of Rage DVDs and bootlegs available and you wouldn't have had to attend a show to understand anything. I would, however, love to see you at a politcally motivated gig caught in a mosh saying - "hold on, chaps - we're missing the message here." Indeed it never stopped him. Maybe they agreed that Zack would do all the talking so they wouldn't talk over each other. Maybe Tom was having a bad day and didn't want to be too outspoken. Maybe he had a sore throat and couldn't speak much. Maybe he was in silent protest. The fact is, you can't judge how politically motivated the guy is because his bandmate does all the talking. Anyway, i'm off to watch the Live at Grand Olympic DVD and observe the audience knocking seven shades of shit out of each other while Zack screams at them. He seems happy enough for that to happen in that DVD.........

No - Sky Talk is not needed. I certainly don't have it and have no intentions of getting it. As long as you have an active Sky TV connection and are in a covered area you are entitled to Sky Broadband for 5 a month regardless of what "variety mix" you have or whether you have Sky Talk.

Depends how much you are downloading! For most folk it'll be enough unless you are downloading entire seasons of Prison Break or whatever turns you on! The 10 full monty package is not available in Aberdeen yet - I was told it would be May at the earleist. It's 16MB - can you imagine how fast that would be?! I'm not sure if the Aberdeen exchanges could handle this speed yet? But as you say it's billed as "unlimited" - however I'd beware of "unlimited broadband" - it simply doesn't exist.

It's nae 37 a month! I count it as 5 as it is, well, 5 extra a month for broadband. - the Sky TV part is irrelevant, as i'd be paying it anyway. Are you getting 37 from the "26 for TV and 5 for broadband rental that is advertised on the site? Or by adding Sky Talk? This is just an offer to tempt new customers. I don't have Sky Talk and will never take it. The 5 broadband offer is open to all existing Sky customers who agree to a 12 month broadband contract. This means someone picking two mixes for 16 can take advantage of the offer - 16 + 5 = 21. The nearest offers I can find (there's bound to be others, but for a quick comparison) is Eclipse Broadband Option 3 which is 29.99 per month with a 40GB cap or AOL has "unlimited" 8MB broadband for 29.99, but we all know how "unlimited" this would be. It's a superb offer and I cannot believe how fast it is and now i've got a swanky wireless router and 12 months Security centre free. Most pleasing. P.S. I don't work for Sky

That's comedy gold! Did They do a survey of the entire crowd and ask them: "Are you taking our message seriously?" "NO" "You mean you've come to a rock gig to JUMP ABOUT???? "Infidels!" I've seen them playing live. I, along with thousands of others went mental the entire gig. The way you're talking I don't think you're old enough to have attended a Rage gig. Zack probably did all the talking in their (sic) DVDs as he was, gasp - the frontman of the band. Funny that - the frontman doing all the talking.

Just got all the gubbins working - had to uninstall IE7 and use 6 instead. No big deal - I hated 7 anyway! Anyways; 8meg broadband Free wireless router Free 12 months McAfee Security Centre 40GB download cap per month For a fiver a month! (You need to have a Sky TV subscription and keep it for 12 months) It's absolutely brilliant - just severed all ties with Tiscali and this is so much better - it's the fastest broadband i've seen! This site just "came up" instantly and everything else seems super - quick. I would recommend it to everyone who can take advantage of it.

'Twas a joke, dude! I got what you were saying!

Or "fuck you I won't do what you tell me"....................

That's a beauty, that one. It really is. That drivel aside, I always thought the split was down to the distance between Zack and the others. I seem to remember tensions within the band got higher as they weren't really talking and the straw that broke the camels back was when Tim climbed up a pillar as a protest against Britney Spears (there's a name you thought you'd never see in this thread) at an MTV awards ceremony. Musically they were never on the same page as Zack only wrote the lyrics after the music was in the can - so it is fair to say that in many ways De La Rocha was more interested in the political side of things. No more so than Morello though - he just sees the appeal in a motherfucka of a riff and making one guitar sound like two turntables AND "Zapata's Blood." And isn't the whole point of the Renegades album that it's Renagade songs by Reneagde artists? I'm sure I got a mailout from Rage, In fact I'm definitely sure I got a mailout from Rage before the album was released with a track - by - track description from Morello and he said the songs were chosen as they were all written by Renegades in their own right who influenced the band. He also said if it was up to him it would have had songs by The Clash, The Sex Pistols and Public Enemy on it, but "democracy ruled." Nothing about it was "capitalist" - Rage knew the only way they could get the message across was by signing to a major and they were fine with it. As long as they had full creative control and could endorse their causes they had no problem. "If you've got something to say you may as well say it to as many people as possible." And of course it's a fucking proper release - Covers albums, as shite as they may be in some cases, count as an official release.

Surely that should be "Glasgow - based"?? And is that the same "Only If You Want Me To" that I remember them playing about 10 years ago? That was a heartfelt ditty if I heard one. Great stuff that they are getting featured in NME.com. Hope it leads to bigger and better things.

First, I wouldn't call Battle of L.A. a bad parody of the first album. If you like seeing bands grow and develop that's fine. that's your opinion. However some bands are "one trick ponies" to a certain extent. I would class Rage as one trick ponies - shouty rapping about political issues - huge repetitive riffs punctated by some "frr t trr" effects and tricks and a solid as a rock rythmn section. I fuckin' love it. Now, to me it's fair cop that Rage use the same tricks again and again - it's part of the appeal to me. You know what you're getting. They did go with a more hip - hop based sound on Evil Empire but to me that just meant cutting out some of the solos and funking up the bass and drums. I think by your accounting Rage must be one in a hundred. On a completley seperate note - How many bands do you, me and probably everyone on this forum say "I don't like their new material - much prefer the older stuff." It's a no - win situation as if you change direction or "grow and develop" you lose the fans that put you there in the first place - if you stick with the same sound you have "run out of ideas." I can count hundreds of bands whose material gets worse and worse when they tried "maturing their sound" or "expanding their ideas." Off the top of my head the Beatles for me could do anything and master it and released "different sounding" albums with every release and were a far better band when they split up when they started. Not many bands can claim to do that. Muse have developed with each release and I think they will continue to do so. The more I think about it, a fair amount of my favourite bands have a similar trait in that you know exactly where you stand with them and they haven't / never deviated from their early releases: AC/DC Rancid Rage Against The Machine Misfits Kyuss / Queens of the Stone Age I would include the Ramones - but they were great until they broke their winning formula then released (in my opinion) some terrible albums. Maybe I fear change, but, in conclusion, I suppose i'm trying to say that I disagree with your idea that bands SHOULD develop and change their sound. Rage, and Battle of L.A. have no less impact because they are not "new" ideas. If it ain't broke..............

Utter balls? I'm sorry, but if you like Rage surely the Rage - By Numbers likes of Testify, Guerilla Radio, Calm like A Bomb and Sleep Now In The Fire more than do the job? I don't have a problem with anyone just not liking Rage, but to like the first two albums and then call Battle of L.A. utter balls is a bit OTT. It's certainly not everyone's favourite, and it's nowhere near as good or consistent as the earlier two, but it's not as if they tried out a new jungle influenced sound or anything. In fact, they moved away from the more hip - hop influenced Evil Empire to a more "classic rock" sound on Battle of L.A. - closer to the sound on the debut.

I wouldn't associate the word "swagger" with Rage. Intensity is more accurate. Could they provide the same intensity? I think so. "Freedom" hasn't been acheived yet, and there's plenty more to be pissed off about in the world now than there was in when they released RATM. Definitely in the top 5 bands I've ever seen live. I'd travel to see them if they go on tour. And Battle of L.A. is ace. Throughout!

I feel unlucky having reading that................

Beacuse he got paid loads of money for basically having a bit of a laugh. Deal.