blaming vans for exploiting the punk community is like blaming dr martens and bic razors for all the hidings folks have recieved at the feet of nazi skinheads. the product isnt the problem, its the people that buy the product.if vans are such bad cunts, why do a million punk kids or whatever still embrace them? punk isnt what is used to be, fact. i dont really care either way, i think any scene that rates community/fashion/politics/limited edition coloured vinyl over the actual music should be swiftly burnt down.somewhere along the way people missed the point, which is equal parts funny and sad. cant go wrong with ninjas though, black clad flexible demons of shadow and night. this isnt directly picking a fight with you dave either before you start making voodoo dolls, aimed at the thread in general.