Banning The NF March: A Bit Hypocritical?

[lepeep]

Not being a manager you won't know that those elusive 40k jobs are actually sub 20k and require properly prepared presentations at the interview' date=' not easy to do when you're flipping burgers 24/7.[/quote']

you are absolutly right, don't bother trying..think low, and you'll never dissapoint yourself...

that's the spirit.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

But here is an image to be pragmatic or even dogmatic about for that matter...

[paranoid]

There's nothing pragmatic about the pious pish you come away with

I really feel that your holier than thou attitude makes you come across as arrogant, thus rendering any attempt to sound learned void.

[Guest tv tanned]

holier than thou?

I think you'll find the Reverend Munch is the one bringing Jesus into the debate.

I find your constant need to point at me and call me holier than thou based on what I say on a messageboard comes across as rather fucking irritating to be honest. You made this point to me a while back as I recall, what you wanting? An apology?

[Moshulu Rob]

So' date=' if you were to find yourself with no job, and so had to claim benefit, you would be quite happy after said three month period to take any job at all? That's ANY job.

Also, regarding savings made - you'll find that a rather sizeable proportion of the funds set aside for benefits sits unclaimed.[/quote']

Well, Yes.

When I left Uni (through my own choice) I took ANY job I could get, it happened to be as a kitchen porter, peeling potatoes, cutting chicken wings and doing the dishes, for 3.25 an hour.

What I was tring to propose was a system of increased benefits for the really needy and SFA for people who a)can't be arsed to get a job and believe society owes them a living or b) decide they are above 'menial' work, whne the fact that they can't find other work prooves them wrong.

[Moshulu Rob]

What? So' date=' you believe every person in receipt of benefits a scrounger?[/quote']

Yes thats right, lazy layabouts the lot of 'em. Down with the proles.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

Did you actually bother to read his posts' date=' he already said that he knew someone who was unemployed. Iif you expect people to put up with all the utter drivel you write you could atleast bother to read the views of others.[/quote']

If you'd take the trouble to look at the post to which I was responding - his post made in response to mine, you will see that he made no mention of the fact that he knew someone who was unemployed. I saw that post, responded, and left. I did not see his second post. So, before you take a swipe at me, I suggest you first think.

Oh, and by the way, whats with you responding to my posts? Just a few weeks ago, on this very issue - that is of the NF marching, you asked that people ignore my posts. Yet here you are responding - not to just one post I've made, but several.

[paranoid]

holier than thou?

I think you'll find the Reverend Munch is the one bringing Jesus into the debate.

I find your constant need to point at me and call me holier than thou based on what I say on a messageboard comes across as rather fucking irritating to be honest. You made this point to me a while back as I recall' date=' what you wanting? An apology?[/quote']

Sorry to irritate you and labour the point. Why don't you switch off your computer and go outside if I annoy you. Oh and Jesus doesn't have to be involved for somones attitude to be "holier than thou". But I'm sure you knew that already.

[Guest tv tanned]

you're right I did - I thought a touch of humour would cheer you up.

I would go outside, but I'm combining my adventures here with work, and besides, I'm not really one for throwing tantrums and stomping off

[paranoid]

you're right I did - I thought a touch of humour would cheer you up.

I would go outside' date=' but I'm combining my adventures here with work, and besides, I'm not really one for throwing tantrums and stomping off[/quote']

Either am I. I will bow down graciously and apologise for the holier than thou comment. I am also at work while posting here and I think I have a yearning to go outside. Well it doesn't happen very often but here it goes - I'm sorry.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

What's the fucking point of debating this issue again?

This subject seems to have more fucking comebacks than the "What is punk?" or "Who is the best local band?" threads that usually infect these boards from time to time.

Fair enough, these threads usually are met with such passion and gusto and make for interesting reading at times but just like the last thread, it never reaches a conclusion, its just the usual malaise dripping off the pages about how the world is gonna somehow come to an end or turn into some Orwellian fucking nightmare where Big Brother will watch our every move and the Thought Police will arrest us and take us to Room 101 and torture us to death by exposing us to our own fears once the skinheads march through Union Street and what not....

I just can't even be bothered discussing this subject anymore, the fact of the matter is that these idiots have no credibility in the world, the Monster Raving Loony Party have more credibility than the National Front and stopping them marching isn't going to stop fascism or stopping people being racist fullstop, and even if they have a march it isn't going to influence good ordinary people to switch on to their cause because of one single stroll through the streets of Aberdeen.

How do i know all this?....cos God told me of course!, he also told me to go kill some hitch-hikers and make a three piece suite out of their skin and bones so i don't know what to believe anymore.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

"We must crush the fascists with an iron fist!!"

Can I ask in what way you're politically active? Coz hey, sitting at a computer and mocking the posts of others is extremely easy. Getting your hands dirty is something else.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

I don't want to get my hands dirty with a fascist

Where do you usually put your hands when you're getting dirty with them ASF?

[Guest allsystemsfail]

You see in black and white too much. No one side in a dispute can be inherantly good or inherantly bad. They very fact a dispute exists equates to the fact that there is fear' date=' mistrust or unacceptance of each others views on [b']both sides of the argument. In short what I'm saying is in any given case like this, everybody is right, and everybody is also wrong. I know that seems like a really stupid argument, but well I stand by it. In this case I've had large expereince of many types of gouverment and social structures, and i soon learned that judgement of their beliefs is not really possible. Decide what you believe in. Take the best elements of all the systems you see. But don't for a second think you are right. You beliefs cannot by the nature of the word belief ever be right, merely an alternative point of view.

God I'm becoming such a pragmatist in my old age.

I see things only in black and white? The NF are racists - an accepted fact.

Also, I do not believe my view correct. It is but one of many. And this is where anarchists and those who hold with socialist views differ. While socialists believe that only one societal structure is correct - their view quite rigid, anarchists do not agree. No blueprints exist. We believe there are many forms of organising.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

And that folks was my last post on The Wasteland. I'm tired of this - these arguements. Round and round they go. It's pointless. Then there's the folks who can only mock.

[paranoid]

And that folks was my last post on The Wasteland.

That is quite misleading as that post is worded as if it refers to the previous post, yet the post itself would have to be the last post.

[Michael MacLennan]

I agree with the Munchmeister regarding the pointlessness of these sorry topics. I remember the days I used to spend trying to argue on message boards, before I realised what a waste of time it was.

Because (a) the topic gets so diverted you spend hours trying to navigate which point somebody responded to which was rebuffed but not really because it wasn't the proper point they should have responded to because the other person missed the point and didn't listen to what that other twat had to say and didn't even make any sense anyway because if you had read it properly you would have known that it wasn't the way you must have thought it was like the first person said but not the second because they seem to have some sort of personal vendetta despite the fact this is only the internet but that's getting off the fact that if you really look into the issue you really can't deny what he said because it makes sense unless you realise he wasn't talking about what you thought he was so therefore you may as well fuck off and die you scumpig.

And (b) because I'm the God Munch talks about. And I really am cleverererer than anyone here. By gallons.

[soundian]

you are absolutly right' date=' don't bother trying..think low, and you'll never dissapoint yourself...

that's the spirit.[/quote']

I don't understand, that wasn't what I said at all.

[soundian]

Well' date=' Yes.

When I left Uni (through my own choice) I took ANY job I could get, it happened to be as a kitchen porter, peeling potatoes, cutting chicken wings and doing the dishes, for 3.25 an hour.

What I was tring to propose was a system of increased benefits for the really needy and SFA for people who a)can't be arsed to get a job and believe society owes them a living or b) decide they are above 'menial' work, whne the fact that they can't find other work prooves them wrong.[/quote']

When you dropped out of Uni though, you had no qualifications except those from school and had compromised your chances of a good job by seeming to be a quitter. Any job would be a success in those circumstances (got the T-shirt on that one)

What about somebody who has not only graduated but has went on to achieve a post graduate award, should they be consigned to chicken wings and potato peelings after three months, taking into account the fact that most of these people will already have worked menial jobs to fund their way through uni?

I think the current system works alright for most people, three months to find a job in your field, the next three you have to broaden your criteria and then they start to give you help after 6 months, while still expanding your search. After a year you're pretty much forced to apply for anything.

This doesn't catch the diehards, the perpetual dolies, but I take the view that if there isn't enough jobs for everyone, give the jobs to the people that want to work.

[paranoid]

What about somebody who has not only graduated but has went on to achieve a post graduate award' date=' should they be consigned to chicken wings and potato peelings after three months, taking into account the fact that most of these people will already have worked menial jobs to fund their way through uni?[/quote']

I went through this and I personally looked at it as "serving my time" in a sense. Made me appreciate the job I'm in now all the more.

[delboy]

I think the current system works alright for most people' date=' three months to find a job in your field, the next three you have to broaden your criteria and then they start to give you help after 6 months, while still expanding your search. After a year you're pretty much forced to apply for anything.[/quote']

whilst i agree that you should be given three months to find work in your chosen field, one major flaw in that rule is that you must have done that job within the last three months.

unfortunately the whole system is geared towards making the unemployment figures look better and sorting the scroungers out. having said that there is plenty of help you can get from the social when looking for work (like the now defunct job club where you got help from trained advisors plus free tea n biscuits. actually they were very helpful and you had access to word processors, newspapers, got help with writing letters etc. i'm sure they must still run some kind of scheme now).

problem is for a lot of people who are unskilled and have families etc, its just not worth their while to take a minimum pay job. having said that there is still an awful lot of scroungers out there and like insurance scammers and football hooligans its a case of a minority breaking the rules and spoiling it for the majority.

[Moshulu Rob]

When you dropped out of Uni though' date=' you had no qualifications except those from school and had compromised your chances of a good job by seeming to be a quitter. Any job would be a success in those circumstances (got the T-shirt on that one)

What about somebody who has not only graduated but has went on to achieve a post graduate award, should they be consigned to chicken wings and potato peelings after three months, taking into account the fact that most of these people will already have worked menial jobs to fund their way through uni?

I think the current system works alright for most people, three months to find a job in your field, the next three you have to broaden your criteria and then they start to give you help after 6 months, while still expanding your search. After a year you're pretty much forced to apply for anything.

This doesn't catch the diehards, the perpetual dolies, but I take the view that if there isn't enough jobs for everyone, give the jobs to the people that want to work.[/quote']

See I didn't know thats how it is, I don't really know anything about how it works at the moment. The last direct experience I had was with a mate who decided to take a year off on the dole and live at home. I thought he was a scrounging bastard then and i told him, not that he cared.

I guess that the only difference between whta you've put up above and what I suggested is the time frame you gfet to look for work in your chosen profession.

I still don't see how having a job precludes anyone from looking for another job though. If that was the case no on ewould do any other job than the one they were currently in.

[lepeep]

I still don't see how having a job precludes anyone from looking for another job though. If that was the case no on ewould do any other job than the one they were currently in.

People can look for other jobs when they are still employed...not everyone stays in their job for life...(some good firms actually give their staff the opportunity to do OU courses (and my company even pays for it)...)

[Moshulu Rob]

People can look for other jobs when they are still employed...not everyone stays in their job for life...(some good firms actually give their staff the opportunity to do OU courses (and my company even pays for it)...)

that's my point, I was replying to the earlier implication that taking a 'menial' job precludes someone from looking for work in their chosen profession

[Cloud]

that's my point' date=' I was replying to the earlier implication that taking a 'menial' job precludes someone from looking for work in their chosen profession[/quote']

See, I don't understand that mentality, surely taking a menial job in your chosen profession is a good way of getting to where you want to be? seems like common sense to me, especially as far as professions where experience means everything :\