Jimmy Lucifer Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 tam's 2 cents:listen to SpazzDamn right. ""WWF Rematch" anyone? What a song! Come and see TAR next Thursday! We used to cover it! Badly.Sorry for slightly hi-jacking this discussion. Carry on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplefrodo Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I DARE you when the MMW ep comes out to say we havent put our own spin on it...you really are Arrogance personified ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Woah Woah!! I wasnt saying that dave was saying anything against MMW (why you brought quik into this i dont know chris.) I was using the bands from the people involved in the discussion and they way i read the post was that Dave would just lump in MMW in with what he was talking about with regards to his comments on "metalcore" yes? Dont tell me this isnt so...Thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 you really are Arrogance personified benthanks!!without even meeting me...well done!! hey...come on man...everyone knows: "Its only a messageboard!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Woah Woah!! I wasnt saying that dave was saying anything against MMW (why you brought quik into this i dont know chris.) I was using the bands from the people involved in the discussion and they way i read the post was that Dave would just lump in MMW in with what he was talking about with regards to his comments on "metalcore" yes? Dont tell me this isnt so...Thats all.weather i would or wouldn't is beside the point, all i was talking about was my views on hardcore in general. not just the new bands and not just the old style and certainly not any of the aberdeen bands. so i think challenging my bands music is irrelevant and unjustified in this discussion. and it's a very weak response to the points i raised, why don't you try addressing them instead of attacking others if you really want to be a constructive part of this conversation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 I don't like this Here's my imput:EVERYTHING is relevant if it is relevant to YOU.Ben likes a lot of metalcore etc (which to be honest a lot of it I find a bit stale - 18 visions for example) but he likes it so it is relevant to him. I don't know Dave as well as Ben but know the kind of stuff he listens to (which to be honest, probably isn't my cup of tea) but that's cool because it's relevant to him.I listen to a lot of the increasingly popular "melodic death metal" (which most of you probably think is shite) but I don't care because it is relevant ot me.Relevance is down to the individual in my opinion, but the one thing that is fact is saturation of a market. Emo and Hardcore have been saturated because they are the latest thing, that is a fact. Like Nu-metal before it, it will die and the true/popular/good/original bands in the genre will continue. Everyone knows that though...Atreyu I think are great though. It's nothing 'new' in the literal sense of the word, but I think they are a good band and good at what they do. The 2 tracks off their forth coming album were great.Regarding the interview and 'influences'... I don't really like At The Gates although I've tried to (yet I own all their albums...) yet I love most bands that are influenced by At The Gates.Does that mean I "don't know anything about my influences"? Bullshit. I just don't like At The Gates.Iron Maiden are the same to a lot of people - they hate Maiden but love a lot of band's who Maiden have influenced.Good point about Imprint by VoD, Lucifer - although it was only released in 1998, which doesn't seem that old to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 I wasnt saying that dave was saying anything against MMW (why you brought quik into this i dont know chris.) I only mentioned quik to point out that dave hadn't said anything about either of your bands yet you felt you had to attack his band to illustrate your point. As Dave points out it was a very lazy way to get involved in the discussion and hardly constructive.Dave made a general point about how he felt about hardcore in general over the last few years. Yet you appeared to take this as yet another attack on MMW and the Metalcore community, immediately adopted a battle stance and prepared to repel borders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 behaviour breeds behaviour my old pal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 lucifer put it up to probably further his profound dislike of MMw and the hype that surrounds....boring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 ahhh mr jack i was expecting you....its the end of another normal day...jack comes in from his work and puts his hat and keys and a few coins on the table...fills the coffee jug, pulls his smokes out and settles at the old pc...great, fast connection today. Logs on to his fave internet haunt (this websitey thingy right here folks) and goes straight to the my minds weapon board where he knows he will find a post by that guy...OOOhhhh that guy he loves to hate...that self important, arrogant big fish in a little pond, that good for nothing highroller...Pah...Highroller..who calls themselves "highroller" anyway...who does he think he is? So he clicks on highrollers name and selects the option "find all posts by user"...He tenses up as the adrenalin runs through his veins...he knows there will be a way in...something highroller has said...a hole he can pull apart...As he takes a sip of the mud like coffee (for the long nights hunting the roller) and a drag from the lucky strike, the posts appear...It seems Highroller has been busy..."here we go..." he says under his breath as yet again he shows what a truly boring, lifeless and sad fuck up of an individual he truly is..**a passage from the book "Frosty Jack - the trials and tribulations of a complete loser." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 You're a big silly poopy faceNo you're the big silly poopy faceDo you two draw pictures like this by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 no dan...but jack is so sad he prob spends alot of time touching himself over this kind of thing.....in fact in this place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Mel Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 ah ben. if you could only see frosty jack in drumming action you'd be eating those 'loser' words. the little pictures he posts mock both you and chris equally and they're funny. they must be hitting home or something if you can't see the humour in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Do you two draw pictures like this by any chance? Yeah' date=' that's about my level, right enough...Sometimes I just can't resist, sorry. I swear I don't do it deliberately, there is no agenda, just a laugh. Do us a favour, and lend Ben some of your sense of humour will you? Either that or just give him these -Add Frosty Jack to Your Ignore ListAdd Jonny Lucifer to Your Ignore ListThere's a couple of pints waiting at Drakes for you both, anytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 ah ben. if you could only see frosty jack in drumming action you'd be eating those 'loser' words. the little pictures he posts mock both you and chris equally and they're funny. they must be hitting home or something if you can't see the humour in them.like i care if he's a good drummer...i mean really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Mel Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 why shouldn't you care? you'd be inspired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 From here: http://www.metal-sludge.com/Iann-TimeToDie.htm"I recently read an article in A.P. magazine with the band Atreyu where one of their members said some really ignorant and stupid things. The kid's name was Alex Varkatzas and he said' date=' and I quote "I fucking hate Metallica-flat out, fuck Metallica, fuck Black Sabbath. I don't give a fuck about the fucking "roots". Those aren't my roots, so I don't fucking care. Green Day was more important to me you know?". Now before any of you internet-loving-wanna-bes start clamoring for my head, I'm not attacking this guy Alex's right to not like Black Sabbath or (early) Metallica and if he wants to really put it out there that Green Day are more important than those two bands, that's also his right. My beef is with "Fuck Metallica and Fuck Black Sabbath" and the "Those aren't my roots" claims. Now I don't know Alex, and based on his band I don't wanna know him, but he needs to understand that without those two bands, there would be no Atreyu, no Bleeding Through, none of these types of bands. I met the Bleeding Through guys and they seem to have a much clearer understanding of what the term "influences" really means and how their hybrid sound was influenced by bands like AF, Cromags, Cryptic Slaughter, Void, Negative Approach and that all those bands listened to Black Sabbath, old Metallica and early Slayer, bringing the feel of metal into punk rock and creating hardcore, which is basically a more violent form of late seventies punk rock. To say what he said shows quite clearly why Atreyu and most other bands in the so-called "hardcore" world suck today-they don't even understand the genre they're playing in. For those who don't know, Atreyu are one of the many bands that claim hardcore when really they just sound like average metal with some kid whining over it. Bands like Atreyu, Bleeding Through, AFI, Avenged Sevenfold and the like always seemed to me like they were playing from the heart which I always appreciated, I never thought they were any good but hey, at least they meant it. The problem is that these kids, with their hip fashions, piercing and mall-esque scene are claiming to be from the same universe as the hardcore scene that shook up the world in the early to late eighties, and that simply isn't true. Hardcore and punk have gone from something that spit in the face of the status quo, to becoming the status quo. Hardcore is a scene now, a teenage right of passage that takes it's place amongst the trends of bobby socks, poodle skirts, hippy beads and tie dye, it means nothing anymore in any relevant way and these kids are disrespecting it by writing bad metal and calling it hardcore. It's not just me, cause I'll be honest, I got into hardcore at the tail end of the 80s, where it wasn't as underground but still honest and passionate, so I'm not Mr. Old School either. That being said, I do have friends who've been there since the heyday and most of them hate what's become of hardcore and how all their hard work has led to these snot nosed suburban brats turning what was once a thing of beauty into lunchroom theme music. Bands like Sick Of It all, AF, Madball and others who are keeping the hardcore ideal alive aren't in the press or on MTV or Fuse, not like these hybrid fashionista bands are. So how could true hardcore bands not be involved in the "growing hardcore scene" we always read about. Well it's simple, that's not hardcore, it's something else, something that needs it's own identity, an identity far from the term "hardcore".The problem is that nobody has been forced to re-think this genre because it's really easy to just call it hardcore and be done with it.. So in order to solve these problems, I have come up with a solution, it's a radical one but it just might work. Let's have a National Moratorium for the term "Hardcore", let's bury it in a nice green field and let it die with dignity. We'll have a huge funeral, invite all the legends of the genre to speak about it's influence in their lives and then slowly lower the term and the genre into the ground where it will be at peace for all eternity. Once it's buried then these young kids can sit around and pow wow over what to call it now. "Fashioncore", "Screamo", "Shit In A Blender", whatever they want. This will also help the future generations of music lovers to see what real hardcore is as opposed to what it's become. When it comes to hardcore I want my grandkids to hear Cromags and AF, not Atreyu and Thursday, I want them to know about Black Flag and Minor Threat not Avenge Sevenfold and AFI. Don't get wrong, there's nothing wrong with those bands per say, I'm sure they are relevant and life saving to a large group of you out there, but they are not hardcore, it's just that simple. So if we bury the term and idea of hardcore then the kids can have their own thing to build on and it won't keep polluting the memory of one of the greatest musical movements of all time. PS Atreyu were named for The Neverending Story, does that irritate anybody else besides me?"[/quote']Nice points. One point of disagreement - hardcore preceded metal's hold on punk. It's emerging influence did not create hardcore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Yeah' date=' that's about my level, right enough...Sometimes I just can't resist, sorry. I swear I don't do it deliberately, there is no agenda, just a laugh. Do us a favour, and lend Ben some of your sense of humour will you? Either that or just give him these -Add Frosty Jack to Your Ignore ListAdd Jonny Lucifer to Your Ignore ListThere's a couple of pints waiting at Drakes for you both, anytime.Haha! I feel I use this phrase far too often but it's great:It's just banter Add Dan Atom to your People To Thank list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highroller Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 maybe i would...you know i love watching awesome drummers Mel,but if they follow you around boards...pick on you...yeah it goes past humourous.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 oh that argument is getting old...ok so maybe he is wrong to say "fuck them..." but quite often thats the reaction when people say "oh you like this so you had better like this...!" Err no...so what I love Pennywise...i dont want to listen to Minor threat...cause I THINK they are shit!!You may not like Minor Threat, but without such early hardcore outfits, you'd have no scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 You may not like Minor Threat' date=' but without such early hardcore outfits, you'd have no scene.[/quote'] Absolutely, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to like Minor Threat just because you like hardcore music.Music evolves. Just because you like one band doesn't mean you have to like bands that started the genre originally, regardless of how influential they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 and quite clearly sabbath rule and anyone who says otherwise should pick up their guitar and shove it up their ASS!! YEA!!sorry' date=' got a bit emotional there. i think he makes some good points about hardcore changing and all that jazz but so what? his music isn't his music anymore, it happens with every type of music once it becomes more than a scene and more of a movement. hardcore's been a rolling stone gathering moss for years now with the moss being more and more fashion bands that all sound much the same bringing nothing new to it except new and interesting hairstyles but that's what people want to hear. they want crisp production on pro tools and the note perfect chorus to sing along to. man it's the same fucking argument that's gone on for years with punk music in general, people talking about how punk these days isnt' real punk etc. well things change and music warps faster than most things, it's just the wayit goes. i don't know about anyone else but i'm tired of hearing a million fucking minor threat or sick of it all rip offs that are just as interchangeable as the new 'hardcore/metalcore' bands that are kicking about. hardcore is stale in general, not just with the fashionable bands.[/quote']Punk/harcore has become stale? I agree, and the reason? Metal. It has had a quite ruining effect on the genre. 80s outfits such as Discharge, Dead Kennedys, Crass, or Chumbawamba pushed barriers, producing something totally unique. Today? Well, many appear content to follow a standard formula - a metal infused sound, unwilling to experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Absolutely' date=' but that doesn't mean you HAVE to like Minor Threat just because you like hardcore music.Music evolves. Just because you like one band doesn't mean you have to like bands that started the genre originally, regardless of how influential they are.[/quote']Oh, I agree. I asked only that folks recognize the importance of such outfits, and not dismiss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Oh' date=' I agree. I asked only that folks recognize the importance of such outfits, and not dismiss them.[/quote'] Well I 100% agree with that.It's funny cos I actually got into Ozzy-era Sabbath via that way.Everyone kept going on about how Sabbath with Ozzy was so fantastic - yet his voice always pissed me off.It was only when I heard a heap of Ozzy-era Sabbath covers by bands such as slayer/pantera etc that I realised how good the songs were underneath his whiney vocals.Then after listening to the originals many times I understood how great a band they were, and how Ozzy's vocals were so fitting to the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartmaxwell Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 this is a great thread, fantastic reading i think that hardcore on a local level (i mean in england/rest of scotland) is pretty dull and saturated see-underground scene for more of what i mean, endless scores of crap hardcore bands with no stamp, but you have some who really are a cut above and make other bands look stupidother than mmw do we have a modern day hardcore sub-scene?wbl being from edinburgh an all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.