Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Yeah smash the system man. It makes me cringe every time I hear people espousing the politics of punk. All thats gone now. Punk has been co-opted into the mainstream' date=' making it politically impotent. Isn't ironic how many so called punk bands today are taking their cues from what they see on MTV rather than politics?[/quote']It is true that the mainstream has sought to co-opt punk. However, while many may have taken the bait, many many more have not. The DIY punk community - whose activities you clearly appear ignorant of, remains strong in its convictions, still fully committed to a genuine alternative to the rock establishment. To fucking shit up. This interest in punk will, as it has done so in the past, fade. However, for the punk underground, it will be just business as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 It is true that the mainstream has sought to co-opt punk. However' date=' while many may have taken the bait, many many more have not. The DIY punk community - whose activities you clearly appear ignorant of, remains strong in its convictions, still fully committed to a genuine alternative to the rock establishment. To fucking shit up. This interest in punk will, as it has done so in the past, fade. However, for the punk underground, it will be just business as usual.[/quote']The DIY punk community, haha. Yes obviously I am ignorant of this completely, perhaps you could point out the names of some such bands from Aberdeen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 The DIY punk community' date=' haha. Yes obviously I am ignorant of this completely, perhaps you could point out the names of some such bands from Aberdeen?[/quote']I'm sorry, but why the hilarity? The community I speak of is global. From Aberdeen? Well, it ain't the best example, but here are some DIY folks from the last 10 years or so:SlainAktifistFastardBloodshotEradicateCurrently? Filthpact.And finally, here are a couple of international links:http://www.profaneexistence.comhttp://www.maximumrocknroll.comOh, I should say, so as not to appear to contradict a previous post, I have only given props to the outfits that I myself like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepeep Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 maple, 100% home recording (appart from the drums..well .. sort of)not "punk" as in spikey hair and moaning about mcDonalds, but home brewed 100% DIY fuk yaz.and it's sounding magic...just wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkt Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 The DIY punk community' date=' haha. Yes obviously I am ignorant of this completely, perhaps you could point out the names of some such bands from Aberdeen?[/quote']THE NO PINTS! ...any money made from our shows goes back into other things such as badges which will be given away, a non-profit band in which the members, although not musically excellent play for the love of it. We distribute political leaflets (stop esso campaign), gig swap and I've started a distro...we may be poppy but we're still DIY...not meaning to blow my own trumpet here of course...i think 10 Easy Wishes have a very DIY ethic bout them too...Tom at least which was quite the opposite of my original impression and so for that, they have my respect...of course no one is more DIY than Filthpact who are already planned a tour of Europe amongst the DIY scene...i salute them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 THE NO PINTS! ...any money made from our shows goes back into other things such as badges which will be given away' date=' a non-profit band in which the members, although not musically excellent play for the love of it. We distribute political leaflets (stop esso campaign), gig swap and I've started a distro...we may be poppy but we're still DIY...not meaning to blow my own trumpet here of course...i think 10 Easy Wishes have a very DIY ethic bout them too...Tom at least which was quite the opposite of my original impression and so for that, they have my respect...of course no one is more DIY than Filthpact who are already planned a tour of Europe amongst the DIY scene...i salute them[/quote']I feel bad not having checked out you guys already, but soon I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim.. Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 "military intelligence"A few of my favourites are;Living DeadWork PartyHead butt!Anarchy RulesSuicide Victim.Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I think the DIY ethic is great, apart from 2 small points.1. I don't believe there is any artist who doesn't want to make money out of producing music and who wouldn't sign to a label given the chance.2. The fact that anyone can do it means it is saturated with samey shite and this devalues the whole thing. A third point, as a sort of addendum - maybe when DIY first appeared, it was like "wow 4 of us can just pick up our instruments and play and record and distribute it". Unfortunately this was many years ago, its been played out to death, and frankly, the world doesnt care about generic teenage band number 23897423784 anymore and technology has moved on.Contemporary DIY music culture is happening on the internet, its global and its embracing the new music production technology that is available to us. Times are changing and "punk" as you perceive it is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I think the DIY ethic is great' date=' apart from 2 small points.1. I don't believe there is any artist who doesn't want to make money out of producing music and who wouldn't sign to a label given the chance.2. The fact that anyone can do it means it is saturated with samey shite and this devalues the whole thing. A third point, as a sort of addendum - maybe when DIY first appeared, it was like "wow 4 of us can just pick up our instruments and play and record and distribute it". Unfortunately this was many years ago, its been played out to death, and frankly, the world doesnt care about generic teenage band number 23897423784 anymore and technology has moved on.Contemporary DIY music culture is happening on the internet, its global and its embracing the new music production technology that is available to us. Times are changing and "punk" as you perceive it is dead.[/quote']Making a little money has nothing to do with it. And regarding bands jumping to majors - well, some believe ethics of greater importance. To give but one example - Conflict (after a long hiatus) were approached by five majors. CBS in particular offered them a sizable sum for their back catalogue. Conflict's response? No.Your second point? Well, it's simply ridiculous. Do you actually have any understanding at all of the DIY punk community?It has been played out to death? The DIY ethic is still of extreme importance. And technology? What does this have to do with anything?And punk dead? Not at all. The proof of this is there. You just gotta look. The punk underground is now way more advanced than ever before. Hey, I posted just a couple of links for you. Did you look at them at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Making a little money has nothing to do with it. And regarding bands jumping to majors - well' date=' some believe ethics of greater importance. To give but one example - Conflict (after a long hiatus) were approached by five majors. CBS in particular offered them a sizable sum for their back catalogue. Conflict's response? No.Your second point? Well, it's simply ridiculous. Do you actually have any understanding at all of the DIY punk community?It has been played out to death? The DIY ethic is still of extreme importance. And technology? What does this have to do with anything?And punk dead? Not at all. The proof of this is there. You just gotta look. The punk underground is now way more advanced than ever before. Hey, I posted just a couple of links for you. Did you look at them at all?[/quote']C'mon man, theres so many DIY bands around that the signal to noise ratio has gone ballistic. How is punk "these days" "more advanced than ever"? It never was advanced in the first place, theres only so much you can do with a 4 piece. It's like a bizarre form of late 20th century folk music and it's well past it's sell by date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 C'mon man' date=' theres so many DIY bands around that the signal to noise ratio has gone ballistic. How is punk "these days" "more advanced than ever"? It never was advanced in the first place, theres only so much you can do with a 4 piece. It's like a bizarre form of late 20th century folk music and it's well past it's sell by date.[/quote']I was referring specifically to the global DIY network.And so many DIY punk outfits around? Why then did you challenge me to name some DIY Aberdeen outfits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I was referring specifically to the global DIY network.I think you will find the scope of the global DIY network goes far beyond punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I think you will find the scope of the global DIY network goes far beyond punk.I have been talking ONLY of the global DIY punk community. My only other experience of DIY culture was via my contact with the squatting/activist community, and in particular with groups such as Reclaim The Streets in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I have been talking ONLY of the global DIY punk community.Yea and I'm saying that its boring and stagnant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Yea and I'm saying that its boring and stagnant.Then maybe, so as to prove your point, you can tell me of your direct experience with it.Oh, and I've expanded on my last two posts. Maybe you wanna go look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Then maybe' date=' so as to prove your point, you can tell me of your direct experience with it.[/quote']I have heard plenty stuff, and you know what, its just my personal taste, I dont find lead or bass guitars interesting, I find the drumming in punk bands to be dull and simplistic, I find the vocals to be naive and poorly executed. Any bunch of teenage kids can do this stuff and most of it sounds like a 18 year old kid venting spleen. I don't give a fuck about "i'm fucking the system cuz my mum gave me a guitar for my birthday and i formed a band with my schoolmates and we play a gig in dr drakes". It's nonsense. It's kids living out adolescent fantasies. These people aren't artists or anarchists or anything else, they are just kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 It begs the question, if it's a "Conservative" punk site, what on Earth makes it punk?Surely making it Conservative in political ideals ( a primarily right-winged political notion), what associates it with the very-left wing orientated world of punk music?Does one of it's supporters have spikey hair and a wee tattoo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott 5FD Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 one of it's supporters is a former Ramone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawy Lawson:Attorney Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 one of it's supporters is a former Ramone.A former Misfit too!Anyway, the way I've always understood punk is probably best described as a bizarre form of "late twentith century folk music", although by it's nature, not necessarily dated. It was about creating something from scratch, it, to me, is a mode and not a genre, although many people believe it is. Similar mindsets can be found in No Wave and even Garage, from how I understand it. The music might not be three-chord rock'n roll, but the DIY ethic is there.It seems odd (and elitist) to say that music about self expression belongs to any one political wing, so for example, so for example, a member of the far right wished to commit his incoherent paranoid ramblings to a backing track he made in his room on his apple mac and pressed and distrubuted 200 copies by himself, surely there is an element of punk to that, although I personally would be put off by his political stance. I've only heard about them, but weren't screwdriver a DIY far-right band? And wouldn't bands with extreme far right views be FORCED into self publishing because the labels wouldn't touch 'em 'cos of their views (although having heard Tobey Kieth....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greigtheshredhead Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 "friendly fire" being the best example."Glasgow University"- my friend came up with that one, genius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I have been talking ONLY of the global DIY punk community. My only other experience of DIY culture was via my contact with the squatting/activist community' date=' and in particular with groups such as Reclaim The Streets in London.[/quote']You mean filthy hippies? Sheesh. BTW, you really shouldn't edit posts retrospectively, its weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 A former Misfit too!Anyway' date=' the way I've always understood punk is probably best described as a bizarre form of "late twentith century folk music", although by it's nature, not necessarily dated. It was about creating something from scratch, it, to me, is a mode and not a genre, although many people believe it is. Similar mindsets can be found in No Wave and even Garage, from how I understand it. The music might not be three-chord rock'n roll, but the DIY ethic is there.[/quote']I do agree with that on some level. Punk is about the attitude, but I don't think that any music with a DIY ethic can be classed as punk. At then end of the day,the whole "What is Punk" argument is simple. It's just been over complicated. Punk is the Sex Pistols,The Clash,The New York Dolls,The Stooges etc, it's tight jeans, safety pins, Vivienne and Maclolm's "SEX" shop and heavy mascara. And back in the day it was about Liberal-minded attitudes to politics,leftist views and anti-right wing,anti-royalty protest.The Ramones and The Misifts were great bands (the Ramones are one of my all-time favourites), but because they have lended support to this campaign, it doesn't boost it's punk credentials. It's a complete contradiction of what Punk meant and what it still is, it's like a Steak Appreciation Society for Vegetarians. Punk is a very politcally rooted genre, as strange as it is, certain musical genres can have incredible political influence. In the same way we'd associate Cliff Richard with people with rather safe and down-the-middle political views, we associate punk with Leftist politics, A Conservative Punk movement is not only completely invalid and impossible, it's clearly a group of Conservative minded politicians trying to influence a HUGE group of near-voting-age, potential Conservative supporters.They've clearly picked up on the large amounts of young Punk fans being influenced by politi-punk bands and guys like Michael Moore and decided to make an attempt at bringing in the alienated youth by getting big names in the Punk community who happen to have political views similar to theirs and using it as a ploy to rear in a few more votes. It's completely degrading to the good name of Punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 DIY is the breeding ground of socialist "all about the music" wank and shitheads. It's just another excuse to pay the band last or not at all. So-called DIY "punks" have been amongst the biggest bunch of cunts I've had the misfortune of dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 DIY is the breeding ground of socialist "all about the music" wank and shitheads. It's just another excuse to pay the band last or not at all. So-called DIY "punks" have been amongst the biggest bunch of cunts I've had the misfortune of dealing with.AHHAHAhahahahaha. Bob I know you don't understand, but I don't hold it against you because well, can you really expect a member of a Busted tribute band to have any appreciation of the underground music scene? You do make me laugh with your jolly japes, you young whippersnapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkt Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 DIY is the breeding ground of socialist "all about the music" wank and shitheads. It's just another excuse to pay the band last or not at all. So-called DIY "punks" have been amongst the biggest bunch of cunts I've had the misfortune of dealing with.your anti-diy punk but i saw you dancing to and sporting a swellbellys t-shirt! and you can make more money from a DIY gig than by playing Kef because the promoter is going to be more fair...and if the bands dont get paid it's cos of people like you, who claim to be punk but don't support the scene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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