are gigs more expensive than they used to be?

[chaz diablo]

Originally posted by stuartmaxwell:

and they are usually shite local acts too a.k.a. diablo seem to play there a lot and they are a pile of pish

you rarely see decent (in my opinion) local acts playing kef because they are aware that its the shitest venue in town to play at

Perhaps you think we are a pile of pish... But since we keep getting asked back we must be doing something right wouldn't you say?

And surely shite local bands that play at Kef are shite wherever else they play too...

[Guest Laura@TMB]

emm...im not going to bother saying too much here - but, none of you commenting run a business do you?!

well why dont you all try running your own venues then you will see why gigs are the price that they are.

Ditto, I'm afraid.

[delboy]

i really dont know why people begrudge paying a few quid to see bands.....

[Guest ASH]

I dont run a business or anything, but it all winds down to the bands wanting silly amounts of money to play. These venues do us all a great favour by booking these bands and I am sure in some cases they dont make the money at the door that they need to pay the bands. The other day in drakes I believe a band would not play as they wanted more money(I only heard this though so apologies if it is not true) now that is stupid. 3-5 is nothing to see a decent band really.

[soundian]

After talking to a lot of touring bands you lot don't know how lucky you are to have the music scene you do.

I took a band from the south of England who were playing Drummonds last Saturday to Drakes and the Moorings so they could see some other venues in Aberdeen, they were amazed at the quality of the venues and the diversity of the music.

As far as prices for door and drink go, no-one connected with the independent music scene in Aberdeen makes money, we make enough to live and continue to fight another day but that's about it.

CPL (Glasgow garage/cathouse etc) should be opening a venue in Aberdeen in the next few months. Let's see how much you really like corporate rock!

[soundian]

Originally posted by Laura@TMB:

Ditto, I'm afraid.

Damn, the other quotes don't come up.

Anyway, lesson in the way of the world kiddies: Any band 'on the way up' will normally have a split clause in their contract. The most common is 80:20, which means the band will walk away with 80% of the profits, on top of their minimum fee.Where's the "profit" there. Just enough to cover the losses on a couple of "minority interest" bands, but you still get "minority interest" bands (without external funding) in the independent venues. You lucky bastards.

[Chris]

Originally posted by ASH:

I dont run a business or anything, but it all winds down to the bands wanting silly amounts of money to play.

Utter Shite.

Where's your justification for that statement other than third hand rumours?

Be very grateful we have venues in Aberdeen that pay local bands. And if you think they get paid a lot you're very much mistaken but enough to cover petrol/taxis, some food anda few pints afterwards is still a lot better than you'll get in most glasgow and edinburgh venues.

As for how much touring bands get paid they have overheads to pay for as well as other people wanting a split of the money.

[delboy]

it still amazes me how many people try to get in for a gig for free via a guestie. my phiplosphy is that you should earn the right to get in a gig for free not have a right just cos your mates band is playing. i've stood alongside paul at the door at kef and its amazing how much people moan about the admission fee, especially if they've just come to see their mates band and then fuck off, thats their problem not the venues.

for once i agree with mr christie (and this pains me to do so!) loads of out of town bands have commented what good accomodating venues we have in aberdeen.

[less_than_stu]

I don't think prices in Aberdeen are too steep. Most local gigs seem to be about 3-4, for four acts.

The last 2 gigs I've played at:

-Six, yes SIX bands @ the Moorings for 3:50 (Courtesy of Good For Nothing Promotions)

-Four bands @ Drummonds last night for 1 (That's 25p a band!)

That seems pretty good to me. Admittedly, by the time we get to 5 or more for an all-local line-up, I am less happy, but I don't question it, I know the venues in Aberdeen are generally on our side (at least in comparison with other places)

Actually, I've been thinking recently, Aberdeen is just about the perfect size for a good local music scene, like we have. It's big enough that people can come see bands, but small enough that it isn't impossible to get a gig and you end up having to do that shitty-sounding pay-to-play thing (Anyone care explaining to me how that works?)

Also, I totally agree with this:

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V

Originally posted by Nicola:

I have only ever been in one of the booths once,it was haloween, are they even open for gigs?

Lava was ace, I wish it hadn't changed and all that. Especially since the booths are NEVER open for gigs Oh well...

[allstardawn]

i don't really know if i can comment on this because the first time i went to kef (lava) was april last year to see the bluetones. i paid 13 for that, but earlier in the year i'd paid 13 to see feeder at the music hall. the first 'cheap' gig i went to was the moon ska tour last year (which, if i remember correctly, was 5.50) i know because i was always prepared to pay quite a bit for my gigs then i shouldn't really be commenting on this, but someone did point out to me that gigs at kef used to be a lot cheaper than they are now. i'm not saying it's paul's fault (or any of the promotors for any of the music venues in aberdeen, as they are simply doing their jobs) but i suppose that as the increasing interest in rock music (or music of any sort) increases, so will the demand for tickets and therefore ticket prices too. but i am still happy to pay 5/6 to see a band at kef

[delboy]

i think another thing a lot of punters forget is the actual steep costs of running a live music venue, you need to get a number of licences to put on live music and DJ's, have your general costs to actually run the venue etc, staff to pay, health and safety legislation to satisfy etc. Every venue has bad nights, one of my nights had precisely six paying punters but drakes didn't turn round and tell me to fuck off being the accomodating venue that they are....

i dont even know why this has become an issue, bands at worst in aberdeen don't get paid, at best can get paid quite well. i'm much more angry about the price of cigarettes and alcohol and the general cost of living in this country than the price of admission to a gig.

[Guest Tam o' Shantie]

Ok Ok it's understandable that these venues are running costs and i'm sure nobody makes a great deal of money - but why was it so much cheaper so recently? I'm saying that in the last year prices seem to have risen significantly, not moaning about prices in general.

[soundian]

Originally posted by Tam o' Shantie:

Ok Ok it's understandable that these venues are running costs and i'm sure nobody makes a great deal of money - but why was it so much cheaper so recently? I'm saying that in the last year prices seem to have risen significantly, not moaning about prices in general.

I would say that on average the prices in Kef have risen by 1 at the most in the three years I've been there. About 20% in three years equates to about 6% a year, hardly outwith the realms of decency especially when you take inflation into account.

[Guest Tam o' Shantie]

fair enough, guess i'm imagining it

[Flash@TMB]

For 27 years The Moorings put on bands every Saturday, booked bands directly, operated free admission, and paid the bands out of bar takings. The Saturdays takings were similar to Fridays, and on Friday there were no bands, so less staff to pay.

Last year bands cancelled on us 11 weeks in a row (another story). During that time the takings did not drop, so we concluded that putting on bands did not increase takings yet incurred extra costs running upwards of 400.

We also discovered that certain bands who were charging us 200 per gig were happily playing competing venues for a fraction of that (sometimes even FOC) through a promoter. Then they'd have the cheek to hassle us for some free drink to boot...

So we decided never to pay a band directly again and went off and spent 5 years worth of band payments upgrading the venue. Now we have a really nice setup, both for bands and punters, and the bands have 3 choices:

1) Play for free... any Sunday evening.

2) Promote the gig and charge at the door (but only charge the people that are there to see you and not the regulars). You need to arrange this with me first. You keep the gate money.

3) Go through a promoter - there are 4 to choose from. Each does things differently.

We do NOT take a share of the gate money. We do however provide door staff, extra bar staff, and the sound engineer (either MTA or myself) free of charge. We also enable the band members to drink at cost price the entire evening - and this includes open mic nights. In effect we are still covering 200 of expenses out of bar takings.

The good news for the punter is that our drinks range is broad, the drink quality is excellent, and our prices are low in the grand scheme of things. You can easily get pissed for 10 if you know what to drink i.e. anything on the specials menus and especially Addlestones.

The promoters are empowered to charge whatever the want. The promoter also makes the decision on how much each band gets paid. We are not privvy to this information. The promoter is NOT entitled to charge regular customers that aren't there to see the bands.

Typically people are being charged 1 per band. Last Saturday there were 6 bands for 3.50. That's errr less than 60p per band. Put 60p in the jukebox and you get 2 tunes. Pay it at the door and you get 6 tunes out of a band. Not a bad deal when the live music is cheaper than the recorded variety.

Hope everyone finds the explanation reasonable.

Flash

[Larsen B]

Originally posted by stuartmaxwell:

and they are usually shite local acts too a.k.a. diablo seem to play there a lot and they are a pile of pish

you rarely see decent (in my opinion) local acts playing kef because they are aware that its the shitest venue in town to play at

You used to be a chef. Ha ha. You don't have the right to slag off Diablo when you used to be a chef.

[Guest stuartmaxwell]

excuse me??who the fuck are you?

[Larsen B]

Originally posted by stuartmaxwell:

excuse me??who the fuck are you?

Took the bait! Hook, line and sinker!

[craig deadenstereo]

Bannermans in Edinburgh run a good scheme.

You can get the place for the night for free - no money down. You choose the other bands to play with you, or the venue can get toher bands if you need them to.

They take the first 30 quid through the door, and specify that door prices have to be 3 pounds or less. For this they provide a sound enigineer, a big pa and full backline, plus someone on the door.

You get to keep the rest of the money.

So if 50 people come in, thats 120 to split with 4 bands. plus, since it's on the cowgate, if you get a weekend slot you get a fair few walk-ins. You can easily make 100 for playing.

It's changed a little now though, they ask the punters which band they are there to see and split the money that way. I'm not so keen on this, but I suppose it stops unscrupulous "headlining" bands ripping off the other bands.

No promoters, you deal with the manager direct.

Craig

[betamax]

Originally posted by craig deadenstereo:

Bannermans in Edinburgh run a good scheme.

No promoters, you deal with the manager direct.

Craig

Aye Bannermans is one our fave places too

and no promoters to steal the bands petrol money ....hooray!

plus the best soundman in scotland with the coolest hair