Guest bluesxman Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 I've been listening to Unknown Pleasures in the car the last couple of days, and have started to wonder whether it would have sounded better with a 'fuller' production sound as opposed to the clean, almost glacially cold production adopted by Martin Hannet which isolates the individual elements to a high degree and exposes the flaws in the singing/playing. Much as I've loved Joy Division for years now, I think that's why I find the bands they've spawned such as Interpol an easier and more enjoyable listening experience in many ways. Anyone have an opinion on this? Other than 'How dare you question the production of such a classic album, blah blah blah ad nauseum...' I find the same with Closer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 would those recordings had as much of an effect though if they hadn't sounded so different at the time? i think if they'd been recorded with a fuller production they might have aged a little more as well. as it stands the production on unknown pleasures and closer gives those albums a unique and timeless quality which makes them still kinda fresh now. no one can recreate that production without sounding completely like joy division rather than themselves.i know what you mean though but i think they have more impact the way they were originally recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Yeah, I agree the production gives the Joy Division albums an individual quality but I think that still would have existed by virtue of the individuality of Ian Curtis's vocals, Peter Hook's bass playing and Bernard Sumners guitar playing, all of these have remained pretty distinctive to me. Although later bands have copied the style, Joy Division's guitar work is pretty amateurish in places, but I like it a lot more than slicker outfits, it just sounds so good. I dunno, it's not a huge belief that I have that it should be different, I would just be interested to hear it done differently as with Iggy's remastering of Raw Power, it pisses all over the original mix which was way too tinny sounding to adequately communicate the lovely Stooges noise. The remastered version is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Yeah' date=' I agree the production gives the Joy Division albums an individual quality but I think that still would have existed by virtue of the individuality of Ian Curtis's vocals, Peter Hook's bass playing and Bernard Sumners guitar playing, all of these have remained pretty distinctive to me. Although later bands have copied the style, Joy Division's guitar work is pretty amateurish in places, but I like it a lot more than slicker outfits, it just sounds so good. I dunno, it's not a huge belief that I have that it should be different, I would just be interested to hear it done differently as with Iggy's remastering of Raw Power, it pisses all over the original mix which was way too tinny sounding to adequately communicate the lovely Stooges noise. The remastered version is awesome.[/quote']I see where you're coming from. I must say i think if there was slicker production then Barney's guitar would have sounded very much like any other punk band of the time. I think the guitar stylings, in Interpol for example, have very little in common with Barney's playing overall. Martin Hannett was definitely the fifth member of Joy Division. As with the American mix of the Manic's Holy Bible, i think it would be interesting to hear a slicker produced version, but i doubt it would be as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gasss Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Get Les Bains Douche, the live album. It's worth it just for the version of Disorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Get Les Bains Douche' date=' the live album. It's worth it just for the version of Disorder.[/quote']And Still is worth it for Barney's humurous bum notes on New Dawn Fades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_b Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 How dare you question the production of such a classic album! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 I see where you're coming from. I must say i think if there was slicker production then Barney's guitar would have sounded very much like any other punk band of the time. I think the guitar stylings' date=' in Interpol for example, have very little in common with Barney's playing overall. Martin Hannett was definitely the fifth member of Joy Division. As with the American mix of the Manic's Holy Bible, i think it would be interesting to hear a slicker produced version, but i doubt it would be as good.[/quote']Interpol have more in common with The Chameleons than Joy Division to my ears musically, although the vocals are very Ian Curtis at times, more so on the first album though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 It will be interesting to hear what Barney, Morris and Hookys new "Joy Division" songs for the Anton Corbjin film will sound like, with no Curtis or Hannett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 It will be interesting to hear what Barney' date=' Morris and Hookys new "Joy Division" songs for the Anton Corbjin film will sound like, with no Curtis or Hannett.[/quote']Joy Division pastiches perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Well that's the worst fear, and probably an unavoidable outcome I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 It will be interesting to hear what Barney' date=' Morris and Hookys new "Joy Division" songs for the Anton Corbjin film will sound like, with no Curtis or Hannett.[/quote']Based on the last two NO albums, flat and lacking in atmosphere would be my regrettable guess. Listened to a live JD/NO few bootlegs from 1980 recently, sheer brilliance...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NARC Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 As Ikaruga pointed out, the concept of Joy Division is more suited to live performance, and practically all their live albums are far superior. "Wilderness" live in Preston is just SO much better than on Unknown Pleasures, which incidentally I don't really like, and don't own. You have to overlook the occasional musical error, which in the case of Joy Division's concerts is usually a result of a high-intensity, human performance. Though I also know the majority of people on this website only care about "production", "musicianship", and "technical ability" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Though I also know the majority of people on this website only care about "production"' date=' "musicianship", and "technical ability"[/quote']Nah NARC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cynic Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Get Les Bains Douche' date=' the live album. It's worth it just for the version of Disorder.[/quote']I've a few 'live' lps..and find them VG, although sometimes the vocals are lost in the overall sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 There's some great footage with sound of Joy Division at a pub gig here: Nice and raw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 That's glorious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 As Ikaruga pointed out' date=' the concept of Joy Division is more suited to live performance, and practically all their live albums are far superior. "Wilderness" live in Preston is just SO much better than on Unknown Pleasures, which incidentally I don't really like, and don't own. You have to overlook the occasional musical error, which in the case of Joy Division's concerts is usually a result of a high-intensity, human performance. Though I also know the majority of people on this website only care about "production", "musicianship", and "technical ability"[/quote']He never pointed that out at all. He only said a version of a song was better on a live album. The same applies to New Dawn Fades, the Unknown Pleasures version just doesn't cut it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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