am i allowed to be thrown out of a bar in the middle of the day

[Guest MerryChristmas]

IT IS ILLEGAL for Asda or anyone else to not serve someone under the age of 21.If they ask for ID and you can prove that you are over 18 they are legally obliged to serve you.If not' date=' you can have them done for breaking the law.

On the other topic.I usually carry my passport if I'm out for the night and actually like it when someone IDs me as they usually get embarressed when they realise how old you are and not just trying to hood-wink your way into the pub.[/quote']

Its not illegal, you are wrong!

[Cloud]

As for 15 year olds having condoms... I do not really view it as appropriate for an educational institution (Aberdeen College) to be handing out condoms and certainly not to people as young as 15. A Doctor or Pharmacist would have been more appropriate as they would have training and experience in speaking to people about these issues. The point I was trying to make was that the student president has a fairly bizarre range of duties. This is very off topic by now.

The general attitude towards condoms these days seems to be one that young kids are going to have sex regardless of what the adults say, so they might as well make sure the kids are safe rather than the possible alternative. You can walk into various places and take as much as you want, no questions asked. Colleges in Scotland at least are more than happy to be dishing them out - at the end of the day, would you want a young kid's life ruined because they couldn't access them easily?

Another simple fact : do people *want* to be spoken to about these issues? I sure as hell wouldn't, and if I had to talk to someone to get them, I probably wouldn't use them and I'm not even a kid with maturity issues.

As far as the student ID's go - it's a ridiculous situation that the college ID's are issued by the student association and not the college itself. The problem a few years ago now with fake ID's was because of the unreliability of the issuing authority, it was well known by a lot of people exactly how to dodge the system - even if it wasn't intentionally being done, it was ridiculously easy to get round the whole system. I suspect though, if the college issued them, they'd be even worse at doing it than the SA.

[some_kinda_hate]

I dunno, it's encouraging them anyway.

[Guest MerryChristmas]

[GraemeC]

I dunno' date=' it's encouraging them anyway.[/quote']

Encouraging?????????????????

Has the world changed so much since I was 15.....? I was a walking hormone at 15, birth control and condoms in particular should be available in primary schools in my opinion.

Kids and young adults will have an overpowering need to copulate as soon as puberty hits and I believe kids should be pre armed and comftable with the use of condoms to help reduce the shameful teen pregnancy and STD problem we have in this backward religiously inhibited country we live in

[Flash@TMB]

Okay' date=' one situation. They might've had trouble with underagers recently, so management has decided to make sure that everyone in the bar is over 18 regardless of what they're drinking. It all goes down to a "what if" situation - if they get raided, and someone turns out to be in the bar underage and against licence terms, they'd get it from the licencing board and all the rest of it. Soft drinks/etc don't come into it, any form of service or admittance to under 18's could get them into the shit. [/quote']

If are going to reference licensing law then get your facts straight first.

A bar may choose to admit anyone aged 14 plus. Only people 18 plus may be served alcohol. However the bar may also choose not to admit any under 18, or even anyone under 21 should it so desire. It's entirely up to the bar.

It's often very hard to tell the difference between someone of 21 and someone of 15. For example:

The guy on the left of this picture was 21, and his buddy on the right was 15. EDIT: I should add, that this picture was taken the morning after the guy on the right had slept with a 20 year old woman. No wonder he is smiling. She found his ID the next morning searching through his wallet to while he slept, presumably trying to find contact details (she really liked him). I had to spend an hour calming her down... technically she had committed rape, child abuse...

So my advice is that everyone should carry ID. I do, I did, and I always have... except when I was underage.

The situation with places serving meals is somewhat different BTW, and it is possible under those circumstances for people much younger than 14 to be admitted, and also for people under 18 to be served certain types of alcoholic drink. But I don't know enough about licensing law to provide details about abything other than bars (Laura does though), and I have the sense to shut up when I don't know what I'm talking about.

But the bottom line is that nobody has an entitlement to be server regardless of anything. It's entirely up to the people working in the bar.

[lollerskates]

Best. Post. Ever.

[Chris]

A bar may choose to admit anyone aged 14 plus.

I don't think that's entirely true, although it's been a long time since I read up on licensing laws so my memory is a little hazy and it may depend on the type of license. But in general I think that under 18s are not allowed in the vicinity of the bar but they are allowed in a lounge area away from the bar. Your overall point about it being up to the bar who they admit is correct that's why places get away with enforcing dress codes etc.

[Flash@TMB]

I don't think that's entirely true' date=' although it's been a long time since I read up on licensing laws so my memory is a little hazy and it may depend on the type of license. But in general I think that under 18s are not allowed in the vicinity of the bar but they are allowed in a lounge area away from the bar. Your overall point about it being up to the bar who they admit is correct that's why places get away with enforcing dress codes etc.[/quote']

No Chris. I am correct. I think that what you are referring to relates to people under 14 and premises that serve food. That gets even more interesting, and if I recall correctly people aged under 18 may even drink certain alcoholic drinks at the table. But Laura would be a better person to ask as she has a licensing qualification.

But please, take in from me that someone aged 14, could in theory, walk into a bar unescorted, approach the counter, and order a pint of coke.

[catherine]

yey someone else agree's with me!

i always try and tell people that you only have to be 14 to be in a pub. and everyone tries to argue and say you need a children licenece thing.

[Chris]

hmm. I just went and did some reading up:

It is an offence to allow children under sixteen onto premises unless

accompanied by a person over eighteen. The offence depends upon the

category of premises in question:

a. premises exclusively or primarily for the sale of alcohol

b. premises where alcohol is available, but not primary or exclusive;

it is an offence between the hours of midnight and 5 a.m.

It is an offence for an individual under 18 to consume alcohol on relevant

premises and for anyone who had the authority to stop him to allow him

so to do. The exception where the consumption is to be on the premises,

is where the child is aged between 16 and 17 and is accompanied by an

adult and is having a table meal. In those circumstances, the only alcohol

that they are allowed to consume is wine, beer or cider.

http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/law.pdf

So that's pretty much what I thought it was.

[Chris]

the current legislation in scotland:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2005/20050016.htm

[Flash@TMB]

hmm. I just went and did some reading up:

http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/law.pdf

So that's pretty much what I thought it was.

Actually no. Try reading the whole of the SCOTTISH licensing act from the link that Google regurgitated, then come back on this thread and eat humble pie.

And be careful to note that there are several types of licensed premises, and the act references all of them.

This is another instance of Google vs Knowledge.

[Flash@TMB]

Here is my attempt from Google:

LEGAL STATUS: Alcohol is covered by licensing laws and other regulations as follows:

Under 5: It is illegal to give alcohol to a child under five years old in any circumstances excepting on the orders of a doctor.

5+: It is legal for children over the age of five to drink alcohol on private premises, such as in the home.

Under 14: Children under the age of fourteen years are not allowed in a bar during opening hours unless the bar has been granted a childrens' certificate. Children under fourteen are allowed in other parts of licensed premises at the discretion of the licensee.

14+: Young people between the ages of fourteen and seventeen may be in a bar during opening hours but may not buy, be bought or drink alcohol on the premises.

16+: Young people sixteen and seventeen years of age may buy or be bought certain drinks in licensed premises but only in a seperate eating area and only for consumption with a meal. The permitted drinks in England and Wales are beer, cider and perry. In Scotland, they may also purchase and consume wine with the meal.

Under 18: It is illegal for any person under eighteen years of age to buy any alcohol from an off licence, attempt to buy alcohol or for someone else to buy it in order to supply it to someone under the age of 18.

And here's a link for you:

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2000/rp00-016.pdf

Which pretty much explains everything.

The only thing that annoys me more than 'Googlers' is amatuer lawyers with access to Google.

[Chris]

not so much google versus knowledge, just my not bothering to read through every bit of the act. which I should have. and I only did because you said yourself you didn't know much about this subject, and my memory from when I learned about it in school was vague at best so I wanted to find something a bit more concrete.

After reading through it now it seems the question of under 18s access to licensed premises is a bit open. The act says that when applying for a license the applicant has to describe wether the premises will be open to children and young persons and which areas of the premises will be available to them. But it doesn't set in stone ages or any specific areas which would merit a license refusal.

So I'll concede that my point wasn't correct since the law was updated last year.

Here's a page (which I found after flicking through the whole act) which picks out all the relevent sections regarding children and young persons:

http://childpolicyinfo.childreninscotland.org.uk/index/news-app/story.2371

[Chris]

And here's a link for you:

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2000/rp00-016.pdf

Which pretty much explains everything.

The only thing that annoys me more than 'Googlers' is amatuer lawyers with access to Google.

From the first page of your link:

The Bill applies only to England and Wales.

So you made the same mistake I did. Any references in that link to Scotland were referencing old laws, not the current legislation.

Nothing annoys me more than people who say they don't have good knowledge about something, enter a discussion about it and then get annoyed when someone tries to find out if they're right or not.

[spellchecker]

wait.................

...... WHO CARES

[soundian]

The laws for places holding entertainment licences is different as well.

[Flash@TMB]

So you made the same mistake I did. Any references in that link to Scotland were referencing old laws' date=' not the current legislation.[/quote']

Like I said, that link was my 5 minute attempt at Google. I didn't even read it.

Nothing annoys me more than people who say they don't have good knowledge about something' date=' enter a discussion about it and then get annoyed when someone tries to find out if they're right or not.[/quote']

I am perfectly clear on the law that applies to our circumstances, which is what this question and thread related to. People aged 14 plus may be in a bar, in Scotland, unaccompanied.

The parts I am hazy on are everything else. For instance I suspect it 'might' be possible for a 16 year old to sit down in a lounge, order a meal, and order a pint of cider to go with it. unaccompanied. But I'm not sure. And I'm not going to go check on Google either. adn anyone that does should be aware that they may not come away with the correct answer.

Lawyers exist because their are trained (for a long time) to interprete legal documents.

The reason I'm having a go at you, is that it seems everytime I spit sideways some fucker runs a check on Google to see if I'm breaking the law... and everytime my fingers hit the keyboard some fucker is checking for errors / factual inconsistencies. It's like neh neh nee neh neh.

And that's probably the reason that nobody with an actual licensing qualification, be it Laura, Rob, or whoever, ever comes on these threads to set the record straight.

[Flash@TMB]

Anyway, more importantly... I was the guy on the left of that photo. Does anything think I used to be cute?

Oh fuck I sound like my grandma now...

[le weez]

Does anything think I used to be cute?

You still are cute Flashy! But now more in a sort of "awwww!" way

[Chris]

The reason I'm having a go at you' date=' is that it seems everytime I spit sideways some fucker runs a check on Google to see if I'm breaking the law... and everytime my fingers hit the keyboard some fucker is checking for errors / factual inconsistencies. It's like neh neh nee neh neh.[/quote']

That's fair enough. I wasn't trying to point out if you were breaking the law or anything though, I was just trying to find out what the law actually was for my own interest and for those on here that are directly affected by it. Didn't want an argument, just a discussion

[catherine]

From the first page of your link:

So you made the same mistake I did. Any references in that link to Scotland were referencing old laws' date=' not the current legislation.

[/quote']

the current law in scotland has been the same since like 1972.... if that helps. it may look old but its still the same. i think its maybe being changed soon. but hasnt been for a very long time. (i may not be still correct)

[Chris]

the current law in scotland has been the same since like 1972.... if that helps. it may look old but its still the same. i think its maybe being changed soon. but hasnt been for a very long time. (i may not be still correct)

the law changed in november 2005 with the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 linked to earlier in this thread.

[catherine]

ah. i knew something was happening at some point. and the last time id spoken to my dad about it was like october.

fair doo's