betamax Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 im voting scottish socialist if they send me a leaflet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 im voting scottish socialist if they send me a leaflet well, they don't have a candidate for one of the Aberdeen seats as yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I don't blame 'the english' that's just rather stupid to do. There's plenty Scottish MPs who've done far more to harm Scotland than any Englishman...i'm not suggesting every scot blames the english but there is those that do. to be honest its not as bad since the scottish parliament was set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 The argument shouldn't be whether Scottish independance works' date=' but whether it would work better than the status quo.[/quote']I think so.you have a tendacy to squabble amongst yourselves far too much....It's inherited... it's been like this for at least 700 years, why should it suddenly change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Mel Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 i'm voting tory as i do in every election because their economic policy is one i agree with. Labour wastes far too much money on beurocracy and their only solution is to keep hiking up taxes. Did anyone see on the news about how generally we're worse off financially because tax increases in the form of national insurance was higher than inflation. and yet they want to add more increases, including a 40% flat tax on any capital gain from property, a proposal which will completely freeze the housing market and thus kill a huge chunk of the economy. plus i hate gordon brown in general. the stealth tax he charged pension fund companies in his first year as chancellor is exactly equal to the money missing from pension funds today. but no one in the media seems to pick up on these figures. and now they want to raise council tax in scotland to pay to police the smoking in pubs ban that nobody wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Gordon Brown's runnign of our economy is imo hte best thing about the labour government, and the one thing that would make me consider voting for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zeenat Aman Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 i'll probably vote labour' date=' though i may vote sinn fein![/quote']I hope you are joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I hope you are joking.no, believe it or not members of sinn fein dont run around northern ireland in balaclavas ordering people to get blown up. at this stage i dont know who i'm going to vote for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 i'm voting tory as i do in every election because their economic policy is one i agree with. Labour wastes far too much money on beurocracy and their only solution is to keep hiking up taxes. Did anyone see on the news about how generally we're worse off financially because tax increases in the form of national insurance was higher than inflation. and yet they want to add more increases' date=' including a 40% flat tax on any capital gain from property, a proposal which will completely freeze the housing market and thus kill a huge chunk of the economy. plus i hate gordon brown in general. the stealth tax he charged pension fund companies in his first year as chancellor is exactly equal to the money missing from pension funds today. but no one in the media seems to pick up on these figures. and now they want to raise council tax in scotland to pay to police the smoking in pubs ban that nobody wanted.[/quote']fair enough but do you really trust michael howard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Do you really trust Gerry Adams?i dont trust any politicians full stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zeenat Aman Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 no' date=' believe it or not members of sinn fein dont run around northern ireland in balaclavas ordering people to get blown up. at this stage i dont know who i'm going to vote for....[/quote']Hmm that maybe so, but it's obvious that they are the powerful/legal face of a certain terrorist outfit. A fact that cant be fully proven, but there are numerous cases of obvious sinn fien links though...The guy getting killed in that pub, then the family out cry followed by the public bit of 'advice' from sinn fien not to meddle in politics(which I believe they then took back/apologised for?) for instance.I believe Gerry Adams even knows who did the killing, hence the offer to have them seen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I was planning to vote Lib Dem, until I discovered their "Lower the drinking age to 16" policy, this combined with Labour's 24-hour licensing plans and the text messages they sent out referring to themselves as the 'Party' party (chuckle), shows the shambolic state of British politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 well' date=' they don't have a candidate for one of the Aberdeen seats as yet.[/quote']We do. A friend of mine is standing in Aberdeen North, a guy called John Connon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zeenat Aman Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today3_McGuinness_20050315.ramSmart bastard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 We do. A friend of mine is standing in Aberdeen North' date=' a guy called John Connon.[/quote']I stand corrected, there had been no news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hmm that maybe so' date=' but it's obvious that they are the powerful/legal face of a certain terrorist outfit. A fact that cant be fully proven, but there are numerous cases of obvious sinn fien links though...The guy getting killed in that pub, then the family out cry followed by the public bit of 'advice' from sinn fien not to meddle in politics(which I believe they then took back/apologised for?) for instance.I believe Gerry Adams even knows who did the killing, hence the offer to have them seen to.[/quote']you should read the irish press for conspiracy theories about sinn fein and the IRA!!!!! the main reason i would vote for sinn fein is because catholics over here do still get widely persecuted and get a raw deal and they are striving to improve this plus i'm not totally against a united ireland but yes the suspected terrorist links do concern me, i mean mcguinness and adams were members of the IRA in the 70's, i've still a lot of reading and catching up to do on the history and politics in ireland. thing is and if anyone knows please tell me, i dont know if any of the loyalist parties have affiliations to loyalist terror groups who are equally as evil as the IRA but it wouldnt suprise me....derry is literally a divided city seperated by the river foyle. the predominately catholic side (the city side) have to pay higher council tax, higher insurance and higher house prices whilst it is cheaper to live in the predominately protestant waterside, this happens a lot over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I stand corrected' date=' there had been no news.[/quote']He was the fall-back candidate. We were supposed to have a woman standing, I forget her name, but she bottled it as she was worried being an SSP candidate would fuck up her chances of getting a job! Politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zeenat Aman Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 you should read the irish press for conspiracy theories about sinn fein and the IRA!!!!! the main reason i would vote for sinn fein is because catholics over here do still get widely persecuted and get a raw deal and they are striving to improve this plus i'm not totally against a united ireland but yes the suspected terrorist links do concern me' date=' i mean mcguinness and adams were members of the IRA in the 70's, i've still a lot of reading and catching up to do on the history and politics in ireland. thing is and if anyone knows please tell me, i dont know if any of the loyalist parties have affiliations to loyalist terror groups who are equally as evil as the IRA but it wouldnt suprise me....derry is literally a divided city seperated by the river foyle. the predominately catholic side (the city side) have to pay higher council tax, higher insurance and higher house prices whilst it is cheaper to live in the predominately protestant waterside, this happens a lot over here.[/quote']From what i know(which isn't all that much really) both the legal and the illegal parties/organisations have always been linked. Maybe that is changing now though.Would those of us who vote for the SNP still do so if they were linked to terrorist organisations?I myself, have never voted in a general election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 From what i know(which isn't all that much really) both the legal and the illegal parties/organisations have always been linked. Maybe that is changing now though.Would those of us who vote for the SNP still do so if they were linked to terrorist organisations?I myself' date=' have never voted in a general election.[/quote']now why doesnt that suprise me phil? i think you should vote if you can...one thing that suprised me about northern ireland is the incredible amount of bickering, in fighting and feuds between loyalist sections, just been reading a book on notorious loyalist terrorist johnny 'mad dog' ahair interesting reading, before the peace process kicked in when he was in charge (and his terrorism acts were born out of pure hatred for the catholic faith), they really did come close to a civil war here and thats only just over 10 years ago. another thing i found out was that it was actually gerry adams who first used the term 'peace process' the IRA antics got more press coverage because of their mainland campaigns.whilst remaining a pretty violent country (the local news is always an interesting watch usually covering a feud, armed robbery and the odd violent rape), most of the violence is kept to certain sensitive areas and i've found most people whichever side of the religious fence they sit, very welcoming indeed. i think even those politicians with past terrorist links realise that violence is not the answer. and it has natural beauty to match scotland, growing up in england in the 80's my vision of northern ireland was somewhat blinkered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchief Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 to be honest with you i don't really care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummerOfIntenseEvil Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I'm unsure about this one. Theoretically, I'm an SNP voter. However, I've been a bit put off by them ever since John Swinney was on a Question Time special and basically said that if we got independence from England, we would straight away sign up for everything the EU has for us. I don't see the point in seperating from one group of countries just to completely align yourself with an even bigger group of countries.However, I've always thought Alex Salmond is one of the few politicians who doesn't have any of the usual smarminess about him, so I'm more inclined to vote SNP again. Although I'm still not convinced about what will happen if we DO get independence.Besides, there's no fucking way I'm voting for Labour or the tories. Might go for Lib Dems since it's the general election and not the Scottish elections though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 I'm not denying that' date=' in the long term, Scotland could emulate Ireland's successful economic model, for example. The problem, as I see it, with the immediate effects of independence is the fact that we would immediately be competing with the rest of the UK for investment from foreign companies. Meanwhile, responsibility for defence, health, education, unemployment, arts funding, transport and all other governmental matters would be fully in the hands of the Scottish Parliament, with no subsidies forthcoming from Westminster. The tax revenue raised in Scotland as it stands is not enough to fund all these departments to their current levels.[/quote']I'm interested as to why you think we would not be in a position to compete if we were able to set our own corporation tax levels etc.What you may be reading here is a fiscal deficit, which the UK has as well, and ask yourself how they pay for part of that deficit? The same way Jim Callaghan did in the 1970's. As was reported after his death."Yet in two years, helped by the North Sea oil bonanza and $4 billion in bailout loans, the sterling recovered, inflation retreated to a single digit and most workers voluntarily restrained wage demands. "Quote available in the following:ABC NewsLos Angeles TimesGlobe & Mail CanadaBoston GlobeCTV News CanadaWashington PostNew York NewsdayThe GuardianBut just to move things a little further, let's test that tired old cliche of poverty sticken Scotland shall we? Let's look at GDP levels as an indicator of wealth.Office of National Statistics - Regional Gross Value AddedRegional GVA 2001Area_____________Per head ()United Kingdom___14,500England__________14,800Wales____________11,400Scotland_________13,700Northern Ireland_11,30013,700 (Scotland) of 14,800 (England) is 93%.13,700 (Scotland) of 14,500 (UK) is 94%.And in the small print."4. Excluding Extra-Regio and statistical discrepancy. The GVA for Extra-Regio comprises compensation of employees and gross operating surplus which cannot be assigned to regions. Including Extra-Regio and statistical discrepancy, UK total GVA was 874.2bn in 2001, an increase of 4.3 per cent on 2000."Yes it's our old friend the Extra-Regio where they can somehow allocate GVA from fish caught a mile away from the Norwegian sector but not oil 50 miles from that point.So let's crunch.Wealth (GVA) per head90% of Extra Regio to Scotland; 10% to EnglandUK_______14,888England__14,846Scotland_17,762119.6% of England's wealth119.3% of the UK's80% to 20%UK_______14,888England__14,892Scotland_17,311116.2% of England's wealth116.3% of the UK's70% to 30%UK_______14,888England__14,939Scotland_16,860112.9% of England's wealth113.2% of the UK's60% to 40%UK_______14,888England__14,985Scotland_16,408109.5% of England's wealth110.2% of the UK's50% to 50%UK_______14,888England__15,031Scotland_15,957106.2% of England's wealth107.2% of the UK's40% to 60%UK_______14,888England__15,077Scotland_15,506102.8% of England's wealth104.2% of the UK's30% to 70%UK_______14,888England__15,124Scotland_15,05499.5% of England's wealth101.1% of the UK's20% to 80%UK_______14,888England__15,170Scotland_14,60396.3% of England's wealth98.1% of the UK'sWow. So we don't even need the 70-80%+ we'd be entitled to. We'd only getpoorer than England with between 30-40% of the Extra-Regio and then onlypoorer than the UK with between 20-30%. Well within the comfort zone andwell into the future with declining stocks. Plus these figures are for 2001when the price for per barrel was well lower.A new Scottish Government would have to decide to either raise income tax and business rates, which would drive a lot of companies out of the country and out of business, or aggressively make major tax cuts, which would attract inward investment but fatally damage the infrastructure in the same manner as Thatcher's government did in the 80's. At the same time, social cohesion (already in a a bad way in Scotland) would break down further as schools, hospitals and the police force had to contend with staff cuts at the same time as trying to adapt to new systems of operations.Either way, Scotland would be an unholy mess for several years after independence, and many Scots simply wouldn't tolerate it for very long, especially as England would continue to welcome Scottish immigrants to boost their own economy.The problems you put up exist already under the Union, and I don't see it doing anything to fix matters, the Scottish Parliament has good ideas but cannot back them up without full legislative powers, it is that simple.I support Fresh Talent, but it won't work without control of immigration.I support the need for a competitive economy, but it won't happen without full fiscal powers.I reject the need for a nuclear 'deterrent' based in Scotland, but we won't be rid of it without control of defence policy (which by the way needn't cost much, Japan has a policy of non-aggression and only spends 1% of GDP on defence)The problems facing Scotland are a falling population, under-funded schools, hospitals, universities, police forces and transport, and the continued breakdown of social order. I don't see how independence could help to combat these problems.I don't see how sticking with a Union that has created all of these problems is going to do anything. Bury your head in the sand if you want to though.You're going to come back with a vengeance, I can tell...I'm sure you, or someone else, will now to me. Probably some will just resort to negative scene points.Hope this has been constructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 if there's a green candidate i'd be tempted to vote for them but i'll probably vote lib dem.remember the contituency's change in scotland so it's not as cut and dry as it may have once been. v important that everyone votes regardless of who you're current mp is, as there could be big swings up here.and to the person who won't vote lib dem because they proposed lowering the drinking age to 16, hello, it's the 'liberal' democrats i don't particularly agree with that one either to be honest, it depends how they do it. i guess if it gets groups of kids off the streets it could work. though it would just lead to them being on the streets at 12 pissed up and lairy. meh. booze is what makes this country shit yet it's what makes this world bearable. whatcha gonna do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NARC Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Wow. Comprehensive. Although my support for the SNP is more idealistic; I am supportive of secession/autonomy in practically every case from the Confederacy to the Basques. Any country that has had a distinct and independent heritage should be allowed the right of self-government, whether successful or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 see i get that viewpoint, about self-governance. the thing i can't understand is why are the snp then in favour of joining the eu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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