Where possible... We (drakes) always made the point of paying as much as possible and would never take the piss! There would be times, as Bri Said, where there was simply not enough funds available (I had the cash flow at Drakes down to a fine art and could easily be juggling at Covent Garden) and therefore a verbal 'iou' was issued and nearly always accepted with a smile of understanding... I was the first to hand over more than an agreed amount if it had been a great night, to bands and promoters alike. God Damn it!!! Just figured out why we are not there anymore!!! Paying bands is never easy though but if in doubt, to all bands, get a draft of a contract written up and use it where possible and where accepted. This should help a little in weeding out the unscrupulous venue owner. If they are happy to sign then it puts a positive light on things. Not to say they will stick to it but hey, nothing ventured nothing gained... Problem is, if all bands followed and adhered to the Musicians Union rate of payment then they would never get any gigs! Comes with the turf of being creative I'm afraid. cheesh that was a ramble Jim