Theory help?

[bryn]

This is very badly worded:

Is this correct?

the key is A major.

I start with an A major chord which modulates to C# major through (pivot chord) G#7, being the dominant of C# and all.

- at this point I've naturalled the F sharp of the key signature -

From this C# i then modulate to F via C7 (pivot chord).

- Is it assumed i am still in 'A major' thus the accidentals would be the F and C naturals? -

From the F I goto G via D7.

Do those modulations work, its basically: A to C# (via G#7), C# to F (via C7) F to G (via D7)

im confused help

[Mac Atom]

?!?!?! It all depends what kind of sound you're going for, style of song etc. All of the changes "work" but C# Major from A Major is a funky change and it would have to be a pretty fucked up sound to carry it off. Strictly speaking, as long as you prepare each modulation with a dominant in the new key then it should work but then none of that matters unless it works in what your doing.

Easy answer: does it fit into what you're doing and does the melody fit over all the changes? If the answer is yes then it works, if not then it doesn't.

[Chris]

o_O

Sometimes I wish I knew more theory.

[framheim]

why? what difference does it make? if you play it and it sounds shit change it, if it sounds good keep it. knowing the name of that chord or technique won't make any difference. i was thinking about taking some lessons just to get some new ideas but i still can't get past the idea of it being more restrictive than helpful. if you don't know the rules it doesn't matter if you break em.

i know that might sound silly to folks who live and breath theory and technical stuff but it makes sense to me.

[Chris]

yeah but knowing theory can help you break rules. a lot of the times you might think you're being fresh and groundbreaking but you've actually stumbled on something that you would've known years ago if you're taken lessons. I dunno.

I just don't get the whole anti-theory stance. You choose an instrument and to me that means you want to be able to do as much as you can with that instrument. There's nothing to say you can't learn some theory and then choose to ignore it. God knows I've forgotton shitloads that I learnt when I took lessons years ago.

[bryn]

...so thats I,IV,V ... yeah?

Easy answer: does it fit into what you're doing and does the melody fit over all the changes? If the answer is yes then it works' date=' if not then it doesn't.[/quote']

Melodies are banned at the moment, its all about the modulations from hell

Thanks for the tip!

[Guest Savant]

what the hell are you doing using a major key anyway....?

[bryn]

what the hell are you doing using a major key anyway....?

well the key is kinda lost after modulation number seven, i think... in that case what the hell is the point in the key signature (in this case)???

[soundian]

why? what difference does it make? if you play it and it sounds shit change it' date=' if it sounds good keep it. knowing the name of that chord or technique won't make any difference. i was thinking about taking some lessons just to get some new ideas but i still can't get past the idea of it being more restrictive than helpful. if you don't know the rules it doesn't matter if you break em.

i know that might sound silly to folks who live and breath theory and technical stuff but it makes sense to me.[/quote']

It does, when you put it like that. On the other hand:

I think looking at it from a technical point of view helps you to ignore the obvious combinations, if that's not what you want, and concentrate on the direction which the theory points you i.e. away from what you don't want!

It's like language, there are certain rules which can't be broken (e.g. you can't call a cat a dog, people will get confused, (unless that's what you want)), but it has many layers of complexity where individual expression is possible (cf literature) and people are still pushing the boundaries (literature again).

The real knowledge is in knowing what's possible, the specifics can be picked up easily enough, especially on this thing.

If you break a rule and it works, you're lucky. If you break a rule and know you were breaking it AND it works, you're a genius.

Bottom line is: If it works, it works, but a little bit of theory goes a long way to getting it to work quicker.

[mike buzz]

what the hell are you doing using a major key anyway....?

Why not?

I think minor keys are both over-rated and over-used!!!

[bitchesbrew]

mm hmm

well bryn, ive tried out the chord sequence and i can assure u it definitely does work!

[James McFadyen]

Okies, First of all you can't throw away accidentals (ie: make the F a natural). If you do this, that is to say there is an F# in the key sig and you make it a natural in the melody line, that is modulation and therfore a shift in key.

Try this, instead of a shift from A Major to C# Major, why not do A Major to Db Major (make the pivot chord Ab7) Sounds EXACTLY the same right! Db Major contains the following FLATS: Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb and Bb, thus leaving the F C completely untouched like you have said above. In the Key of C# Major, the F and C and both sharp, and by making them natural you have then gone out of C# Major and into a key defined by the melody (Bb or Dm perhaps)

It is then more feasible to go from the key of Db Major to F Major, It now turns into a natural modulation. Again it sounds exactly the same, but is more naturally executed.

Consider your key changes: A Major - C# Major - F Major (You have gone from 3 sharps, to 7 sharps to 1 flat, quite messy and has no structure or reasoning)

Consider my key changes: A Major - Db Major - F Major (going from 3 sharps, to 6 flats, to 1 flat, a bit tidier)

Although this tritone movement in the first key change makes us shift from sharps to flats, the use of the pivot chord playing the dominant seventh softens the blow (you're example G#7, my example Ab7)

Like I said it doesn't sound any different, but it's a lot clearer. C# Major would almost never be used.

I guess you're a guitarist, that's why you like the sharps, lol, you wont need to change the way you position you're chords, they are the same sound, it is in effect the same chord, the way you label them is different.

Hope this helps