POISON Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 hey i was wondering of someone could help me out again.i am looking to but a cab plus head but don't have a lot of cash thisnow.im looking for at least 150w with a really nice pantera sounding performance coming from the amp.any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Savant Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Guitar amp? What the fuck do you need 150W for?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Savant Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 And did you say 'Pantera' and 'nice' and 'guitar sound' in the same sentence?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POISON Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 well let me see 150w so it's good for live gigs.pantera wot's wrong with that? and i ment mean pantera sound none of this nice emo shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Savant Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 What's wrong with emo?Well I have a 50W 4x12 and it's not shit for live gigs. If you're after a valve amp then 150W would be shite for gigs, unless you're playing on huge stages. Valves have to be driven to sound good - working at about 70 - 90% of their volume they sound good. If you have a 150W amp at 90% of it's volume you're gonna be way too loud! So you have to turn down and they're working at about 40% and, well, dont have the magic. I don't even think you get many 150W guitar amps?50W isn't quiet either.Bass amps have to have more power cos of their frequency or something. I have a 100W Peavy transistor amp and it's loud as hell too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leckie Gilman Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 hang on a minute. i use a 100w combo and your amp is clearly way louder than mine, but yours is a 50w. so like how does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeid Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Valve amps create a bigger sound Leckie... so they sound louderCraig is right about the wattage though. I have a 100 watt head, and i cranked it to 10 one night(going through my 280watt 4x12) and it was insanely loud. Luckily i can switch the output down to 50 or 25watts!!!magic happens then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tav Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Originally posted by Craig Quik:What's wrong with emo?Well I have a 50W 4x12 and it's not shit for live gigs. If you're after a valve amp then 150W would be shite for gigs, unless you're playing on huge stages. Valves have to be driven to sound good - working at about 70 - 90% of their volume they sound good. If you have a 150W amp at 90% of it's volume you're gonna be way too loud! So you have to turn down and they're working at about 40% and, well, dont have the magic. I don't even think you get many 150W guitar amps?50W isn't quiet either.Bass amps have to have more power cos of their frequency or something. I have a 100W Peavy transistor amp and it's loud as hell too. Unless you get a power attenuater? Then you can run your amp at really high volumes and it will soak up some of the power before it gets to cab. Hence...great sound...lower volume...examples are the Marshall power brake and the THD Hot Plates...I think it's THD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tav Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Originally posted by Leckie Gilman:hang on a minute. i use a 100w combo and your amp is clearly way louder than mine, but yours is a 50w. so like how does that work? Plus if he's running through a 4 speaker cab more air is getting shifted and hence a louder sound...the shape of the cab also plays apart too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tav Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Originally posted by Craig Quik:Bass amps have to have more power cos of their frequency or something. Something to do with how we hear high and low frequencies and how amp cicuits handle them...I believe it's recommended to have a bass amp 4 or 5 times more powerful than the guitar amp in your band...so if the guitarist has 50w you really want about 250w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Boss Koala Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 power breaks are bad for you tubes, or so i heard.to ge back to the topic, Dimebag uses solid state amps (randalls in fact) so you dont need to be looking at valves necessarily. 150 watts will be REALLY fucking loud, 100 or 50 watts will do you just fine. (although dime's amp is 300 watts or something- solid state though so that doesn't count really)Hughes and kettner do that 'warp 7' beast, which is solid state and desigined for detuned metal. Dunno if it'd be much cop though. Carlsbro have a big solid state amp as well but they're stuff is usually rank. Saying that you get a 2x12, a 1x15 and a head for less than what you would normally pay for half stack.The marshall avt 150 might be the way to go, but the avt series clip at high volumes (in my experience) and start to sound buzzy.Best thing to do as always is to got check a bunch out in a shop. remember to turn them up loud.You could also check out gear reviews at harmony central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Savant Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Originally posted by Tav:Unless you get a power attenuater? Then you can run your amp at really high volumes and it will soak up some of the power before it gets to cab. Hence...great sound...lower volume...examples are the Marshall power brake and the THD Hot Plates...I think it's THD I dont really see the point in spending more money to get louder valves, only to have to spend even more money on an attenuator to quieten them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig deadenstereo Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Originally posted by Leckie Gilman:hang on a minute. i use a 100w combo and your amp is clearly way louder than mine, but yours is a 50w. so like how does that work? Time to get techinical.It's do with the quality of the harmonics in the distortion and your ear's ability to pick them up. A valve produces harmonics that are better related to the frequency curve of your ear, compared to transistors, they're something like 25% more efficient when heard by humans. What this means is that they don't have to work as hard to seem louder. The tranisistor amp has to have more power to produce frequencies you can hear. Does this make sense? I'll try and find something on the net about it later....I may be slightly wrong, it might be to do with the amount of distortion and it's relationship to your ear...I dont really see the point in spending more money to get louder valves, only to have to spend even more money on an attenuator to quieten them. It's do do with the transformers are their effect on the tone. More windings etc. It's all very complicated, and I only know this stuff as theory, not having had lots of amps to try it all out on.Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolute zero Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 just buy an amp that you like the sound of and that has the potential for gigging with at the end of the day it ain the amp that makes you sound good its the way you play your guitar mate. I personally have marshall amps and they do the job yet they cant take the low end of the 7 string that i have yet still a good sound from it though. The H&K is a good option and is another amp that i have used live on several occasions, good sound yet pedals are the key for the this sound great clen shit distortion oh well! yet at the same time very loud and stury for the mayhem that is caused at gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POISON Posted December 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 well u see i have a 65w transfusion laney amp but it isn't that loud when it comes to playing gigs and stuff. i also have a foot pedal which gives u the sound im looking for but when u turn the volume up more than 5 and pam mute the strings it gives u a horrible vibrating sound almost.and i can't get rid of it, it sucks! but i also noticed when using a pedal with marshal amp they tend to give u a weird fucked up sound.so im gonna be really picky when the time comes plus marshall just don't give that mean heavy sound im looking for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig deadenstereo Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Maybe you should just replace the speaker in it? Try getting a Celestion G75 or something. Probably cost you about 60 and whould stop all the rattles and shit. Easy to install as well.www.watfordvalves.com have good deals. I just bought a Celestion Vintage 30 and got it within two days. Only ended up paying 60. (VAT + Postage are not included on that site's prices) Still cheaper than anywhere else though. Would probabaly be more efficeint and therefore louder.The other option is to buy a closed back extension cabinet, a 2x12" or something. But I dunno if your amp allows you to link one up.As for Marshalls sounding crap with a pedal, it's operator error, seriously.Try the following (probably work with your laney as well):Set the amp up to a medium gain sound. Roll the volume knob on your guitar back until you get a clean sound (if it's hissing too much, turn the amp gain down a bit). Set the distortion pedal's level to full and the gain to about 2 or 3. Should sound shit hotThat's the best way to get a good sound out of a pedal.If you want a really mean sound get a Big Muff and turn the tone down.And remember, not all Marshalls sound the same.Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POISON Posted December 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Well my amp has an output on the back so that could be a possobility but if i was going to do that i would buy a head aswell and get rid of the laney or just keep it in my room.i dunno im so confused, but cheers for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tav Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Craig Quik:I dont really see the point in spending more money to get louder valves, only to have to spend even more money on an attenuator to quieten them. Your not buying louder valves your buying better sound...which happens to be a side effect of louder playing volumes...the attenuator would only be for home use/small gigs where you can't let rip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Savant Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 No. A 100W DSL is louder than a 50W DSL. Prettymuch the same amp.Different amps sound different. You're not saying a 20W valve amp with a 10" speaker sounds pish are you? Just cos it's only 20W? No, didn't think so... (you get nice and expensive small amps btw (and expensive doesn't mean better sounding)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Agreed about small amps sounding good. I used a 20w 1x12 Marshall valve combo live and it sounded fantastic. The guitar player in Coriolis used to use a Mesa Boogie Subway Rocket - tiny little amp that looked like a practise amp, but by god didi it sound the business..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Savant Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Tav:Your not buying louder valves your buying better sound...which happens to be a side effect of louder playing volumes...the attenuator would only be for home use/small gigs where you can't let rip. Oh, and go read my original post - the bit about valves sounding better when they're working harder (louder). An attenuator lets you drive the valves hard but soaks up the power so that the speakers are running quiet. 100W is too much for venues like Lava. Even on the stage at the Forum my 50W amp was no where near 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tav Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Craig Quik: You're not saying a 20W valve amp with a 10" speaker sounds pish are you? Just cos it's only 20W? I dunno who that was directed at but yeah agree with the smaller amps sounding good...that's why many big acts use "small" amps...Ed O'Brien from radio head had 2 Mesa F Serises <I think> and a Vox <prob AC30> aswell which were both combos...though obviously not 20w ones...when you get to big gigs with a full house PA I guess you can use anything you want really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hairy Scary Mark Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 the idea of a guitar amp is that you can hear yourself with it on stage hence being called the backline.Ok in a lot of local venues the guitar will mainly come out of the backline. 50W is probably louder than youll ever need. If you have a larger audiience you should have a suitable PA system.Whatever you do. dont pay more for a marshall MG or AVT or some other solid state amp than you would pay for a 2nd hand valve amp in good condition.Go into a shop and try out amps and get which one you like. Sound control in edinburgh or glasgow has a reasonably selection of amps as well.Also you want an head and cabinet.No soundman is ever going to mic up more than 1 speaker as all speakers have exactly the same signal coming out of them.Will a 4 x 12" sound any different from a 1 x 12" with the same type of speaker when a microphone is placed infront of a speaker. No, i dont think so. Think where your going to be using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 valve amps have more volume compared to a similar wattage ss amp due to the fact the rating on a valve amp isnt actually always the output, a valve amp can be driven more and get more output where as a ss amps rating is the maximum output it givesthe wattage on a vlave amp isnt the maximum output it gives, it can vary between the clean headroom (ie, turn it up more and it will distort naturally) and the max output, most amps are rated somewhere in between these extremesi have a marshall DSL401 (40 watts tube comb) and it puts out roughly 30watts clean and can go up to about 45 watts distortedand my amp can easily handle gigging, its only 40watts tube but this means i can crank it more than i could if it was a 150watt amp, so i will sound better.for gigging all you really need is about 30-40 watts tube or about 65-100 watts ss, that will give you more than enough stage volume to deal with smaller venues, anything that would need you louder than that should definately have a pa (or the mix will sound shit anyway)David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.