Doc Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Are they not allowed to mingle? Have they been banned from mingling? Do they not mingle every day of their lives? Do they exist in some hermetically sealed box only to emerge when they want to mingle? Don't be silly!How do you prefess to know what "gollum" is thinking? Are you his psychologist? Or could this be speculation... Hmm I wonder...They've certainly got you fooled.As Ian said it was an exercise in media and public manipulation and it worked a treat. They played everyone like fiddles and achieved their objective...media coverage and everyone screaming about it. Saatchi and Saatchi would have charged millions for that and you lot gave it to them for free.I said at the beginning of all this to ignore them completely, but no, it was all " protest at this and they must be stopped and oh the fascist bastards."No wonder the fucker was laughing at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 They've certainly got you fooled.As Ian said it was an exercise in media and public manipulation and it worked a treat. They played everyone like fiddles and achieved their objective...media coverage and everyone screaming about it. Saatchi and Saatchi would have charged millions for that and you lot gave it to them for free.I said at the beginning of all this to ignore them completely' date=' but no, it was all " protest at this and they must be stopped and oh the fascist bastards."No wonder the fucker was laughing at you.[/quote']Oh right he was laughing at me? He was laughing at me personally! I did not know. Thank you for telling me that Doc I did not know. And he fooled me good too! He wanted to march but (according to Doc's crystal ball) actually didn't and just wanted the publicity... The mind boggles! Nevermind the fact the NF would have got more publicity if they had actually marched... I should have listened to this Doc character and put my head in the sand and all this would have gone away. Thank you Doc I'm a changed man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Oh right he was laughing at me? He was laughing at me personally! I did not know. Thank you for telling me that Doc I did not know. And he fooled me good too! He wanted to march but (according to Doc's crystal ball) actually didn't and just wanted the publicity... The mind boggles! Nevermind the fact the NF would have got more publicity if they had actually marched... I should have listened to this Doc character and put my head in the sand and all this would have gone away. Thank you Doc I'm a changed man.No, you're simply a fooled man. It's obvious to anyone with a glimmer of intelligence that someone was pulling his strings and through him, everybody elses' involved.They got the result the hoped for..it was written all over his simian face as he hadn't the wit to hold it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 No' date=' you're simply a fooled man. It's obvious to anyone with a glimmer of intelligence that someone was pulling his strings and through him, everybody elses' involved.They got the result the hoped for..it was written all over his simian face as he hadn't the wit to hold it in.[/quote']Oh ok "puppetmaster" Doc, guess I'm just not as "clever" as you in spotting these Machevelian conspiracies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I notice something else here - there's been very little attention paid to the way that the Trades Union got their application rejected instead. Their plan is now to hold a "street party" in the Adelphi - with, as usual, fuck all consideration for the other businesses in that street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Oh ok "puppetmaster" Doc' date=' guess I'm just not as "clever" as you in spotting these Machevelian conspiracies [/quote'] You missed the machiavellian ones as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Oh ok "puppetmaster" Doc' date=' guess I'm just not as "clever" as you in spotting these Machevelian conspiracies [/quote']Plainly not. But you know, you don't have to be clever at all. A sound knowledge of human nature and a little experience goes a long way to spotting (very obvious) manipulation.Give it time and being conned a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I notice something else here - there's been very little attention paid to the way that the Trades Union got their application rejected instead. Their plan is now to hold a "street party" in the Adelphi - with' date=' as usual, fuck all consideration for the other businesses in that street.[/quote']To me at least, it makes sense to reject all marches for that day for the very reason that the NF march had been rejected.As for the street party, do you represent the businesses in that street? I dont think so. So how can you possibly say whether or not it will cause them any inconvenience? Seems your belief that this would naturally cause some inconvenience arises from your dislike of that organisation holding said event rather than actual knowledge, or some logical argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Plainly not. But you know' date=' you don't have to be clever at all. A sound knowledge of human nature and a little experience goes a long way to spotting (very obvious) manipulation.Give it time and being conned a few times.[/quote']Ok Doc explain to us all, carefully and step by step, as we are not all blessed with your sizable intelligence, what the Nf planned all along and how we played into their trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Ok Doc explain to us all' date=' carefully and step by step, as we are not all blessed with your sizable intelligence, what the Nf planned all along and how we played into their trap.[/quote']He's already explained that. Step by step. For your less sizeable intelligence.1. They didn't want to march, and knew they wouldn't be allowed.2. They put in an application3. Everyone raises hell4. Leader goes on TV, and puts out a message that they will all be in town anyway, without major police presence.Very clever of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 He's already explained that. Step by step. For your less sizeable intelligence.1. They didn't want to march' date=' and knew they wouldn't be allowed.2. They put in an application3. Everyone raises hell4. Leader goes on TV, and puts out a message that they will all be in town anyway, without major police presence.Very clever of them.[/quote']The NF didn't want to march? Proof please. And for your information, the licensing committee's decision really could have gone either way. Were you not aware that if the city council had chosen to not permit the march without proper justification, that they would have faced a sizable fine, those who'd objected unable to sit as councilors for five years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 No' date=' you're simply a fooled man. It's obvious to anyone with a glimmer of intelligence that someone was pulling his strings and through him, everybody elses' involved.They got the result the hoped for..it was written all over his simian face as he hadn't the wit to hold it in.[/quote']Dave MacDonald was manipulated? By whom? I also think you're crediting the NF with far greater intelligence than is actually the case. Played like fiddle indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 To me a complete outsider to all this, as i have no political interest at all and most likely never will, but it seems like these guys have got what they wanted out of it all, heaps of publicity. It has been talked about non stop for the last two months on the internet and the newspapers. So really all you guys are doing making such a big deal of it is just giving them what they wanted/needed.I dont support any of their views or anything like that but to be honest this has all been made such a big deal by the people trying to stop it and not actually the NF.As was said the guy had a rather smug look on his face when i seen him on tv which to me suggests they got all the wanted out of this situation, whether they marched or not im sure heaps people now know more about the NF so well done guys you've done what they wanted perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 To me a complete outsider to all this' date=' as i have no political interest at all and most likely never will, but it seems like these guys have got what they wanted out of it all, heaps of publicity. It has been talked about non stop for the last two months on the internet and the newspapers. So really all you guys are doing making such a big deal of it is just giving them what they wanted/needed.I dont support any of their views or anything like that but to be honest this has all been made such a big deal by the people trying to stop it and not actually the NF.As was said the guy had a rather smug look on his face when i seen him on tv which to me suggests they got all the wanted out of this situation, whether they marched or not im sure heaps people now know more about the NF so well done guys you've done what they wanted perfectly.[/quote']I think people, for the most part, are already well aware of the NF and what they represent.Sure, these discussions have indeed provided them with attention, but what would you have folks do? Nothing? They gotta be stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Dave MacDonald was manipulated? By whom? I also think you're crediting the NF with far greater intelligence than is actually the case. Played like fiddle indeed.Do you seriously believe macdonald is the brains behind the NF? He was given his instructions and carried them out. Just because someone is a racist does not make them stupid. There are some smart cookies in the NF and by dismissing them as neanderthal morons, you set yourself up for being out manoevered...like you just were in this case.If you can't see that, then you have a blinkered view. Not having a go at you, it just seems painfully obvious to me.Not seeing the wood for trees perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 The NF didn't want to march? Proof please. And for your information' date=' the licensing committee's decision really could have gone either way. Were you not aware that if the city council had chosen to not permit the march without proper justification, that they would have faced a sizable fine, those who'd objected unable to sit as councilors for five years?[/quote'] As I understand it, the licencing committee felt they couldn't legally challenge the march, right up until the casuals thing was "uncovered". Also, if publicity was the main aim, why not appeal, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
che Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 The NF didn't want to march? Proof please. And for your information' date=' the licensing committee's decision really could have gone either way. Were you not aware that if the city council had chosen to not permit the march without proper justification, that they would have faced a sizable fine, those who'd objected unable to sit as councilors for five years?[/quote'] I wasn't actually expressing an opinion, I was breaking down what Doc said into steps, as monkey had requested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Do you seriously believe macdonald is the brains behind the NF? He was given his instructions and carried them out. Just because someone is a racist does not make them stupid. There are some smart cookies in the NF and by dismissing them as neanderthal morons' date=' you set yourself up for being out manoevered...like you just were in this case.If you can't see that, then you have a blinkered view. Not having a go at you, it just seems painfully obvious to me.Not seeing the wood for trees perhaps?[/quote']MacDonald is indeed an important figure in the NF.He was given his instructions and so carried them out? Sources please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 As I understand it' date=' the licencing committee felt they couldn't legally challenge the march, right up until the casuals thing was "uncovered". Also, if publicity was the main aim, why not appeal,[/quote']The NF have not the funds to make an appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 The NF have not the funds to make an appeal. So they probably don't have funds to pay a hundred stewards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I think people' date=' for the most part, are already well aware of the NF and what they represent.Sure, these discussions have indeed provided them with attention, but what would you have folks do? Nothing? They gotta be stopped.[/quote']But has been showed you havent stopped them. Maybe you've stopped a march which by all accounts looks like they never really wanted that badly. The unfortunate thing is there are always going to be people who think the same way they do and for that reason i dont think they will ever disappear. So no matter how much you protest they are going to be here. I'm also not saying just leave them to it but take a look at the way you go about this. Obvioulsy what you are doing isnt working is it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flossie T Sheep Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Mr allsystemsfail could declare war on them by saying he will "we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Aberdeen, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest allsystemsfail Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 So they probably don't have funds to pay a hundred stewards.100 stwards? Where did you get this number from? Yes, Aberdeen Trades Council, in making their application to march, were asked to provide 100 stewards. This was judged necessary by the police, as the numbers attending the counter-demonstration was said to be around 1000. The NF march however would have been much smaller, and so would not have required as many stewards.Also, you need not pay stewards. The people who steward protests do so for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 100 stwards? Where did you get this number from? Yes' date=' Aberdeen Trades Council, in making their application to march, were asked to provide 100 stewards. This was judged necessary by the police, as the numbers attending the counter-demonstration was said to be around 1000. The NF march however would have been much smaller, and so would not have required as many stewards.Also, you need not pay stewards. The people who steward protests do so for free.[/quote']Indeed. So small as to be insigificant and perhaps even laughable. Now they have 100 times the publicity, made all you counter demo guys look like idiots and they're still going to be in Aberdeen on the same day, unsupervised, uncontrolled and, it has to be said, far harder than the counter demo people, who for the most part are decent people unused to physical violence. I might even come along that day myself to watch the chaos and carnage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Indeed. So small as to be insigificant and perhaps even laughable. Now they have 100 times the publicity' date=' made all you counter demo guys look like idiots and they're still going to be in Aberdeen on the same day, unsupervised, uncontrolled and, it has to be said, far harder than the counter demo people, who for the most part are decent people unused to physical violence. I might even come along that day myself to watch the chaos and carnage.[/quote']When will you get it into your thick scull that they can be in Aberdeen any time they want as some of them live here. Similarly they can gather in groups in cities around the UK any time they want. They dont need to trick people into letting them do that. They can cause chaos and carnage as you put it any time they like, and they certainly dont need the TV to give them publicity to get their NF friends to come along as they have a well organised communication system through NF websites, publications, etc. You suggest they now have 100 times the publicity but there is absolutely no evidence of this and in fact they have less as there will be no march and thus no publicity for that march. They may get publicity if they cause trouble but they can do that any time they like, something you clearly dont understand. What they dont have, as a result of not being allowed to march, is the supposed credibility that being allowed to march would have given this group of thugs.You keep suggesting there is this conspiracy, at first I thought this was because you were simply misguided, or simply trying to undermine those who sought to stop the march, but I now realise your just stupid. You have shown evidence or even any kind of logical argument as to why or how your conspiracy is in fact a reflection of reality other really quite laughable hearsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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