sound engineers look here!

[carbonpie]

Hi guys, if it's ok can i ask some questions about how you finish your produtions? please note this is for a portfolio for my college course!

Do you produce you music at home?

To master your track, do you send you production to mastering houses or do you do it your self?

What equippment do you use for your work?

how far would you travel if you wanted to use an on-demand studio with help from a qualified engineer?

how much would you pay if you wanted to use an on-demand studio with help from a qualified engineer?

for each of your productions, how much do you earn?

Any answers to any of the questions would be greatly appreciated.

cheers!

[Fraser Mac]

Take it your in the HNC Sound Production Class? haha

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Ah yes the Music Education system just keeps grinding out people there are no jobs for, SAE in Glasgow churns out 50+ a year, also Stow College, multiply by the number of population centres that have such courses, how many professional studios can this country support, nae that many. Good skills to learn for making music, not for making a living though. Personally I think you would be better spending course fees etc on your own set up, then learning how to use it well. In this field experience trumps study every time, not to mention contacts. I'm sure its at least fun, but is that worth the time and investment? Your call.

[Fraser Mac]

Ah yes the Music Education system just keeps grinding out people there are no jobs for, SAE in Glasgow churns out 50+ a year, also Stow College, multiply by the number of population centres that have such courses, how many professional studios can this country support, nae that many. Good skills to learn for making music, not for making a living though. Personally I think you would be better spending course fees etc on your own set up, then learning how to use it well. In this field experience trumps study every time, not to mention contacts. I'm sure its at least fun, but is that worth the time and investment? Your call.

I think you'll find that if this is for the HNC Course, then these questions will apply to a hypothetical studio and market research for it.

As for the rest of your Statement, i disagree,

yes there are alot less studios than sound engineers, but those with talent are going to get jobs. and those without out the ability to work well in a studio/live situation arnt going to last long.

I think its incredibly stupid to say that if your going to SAE or Stow you should take your fees and spend it elsewere. These places are the best to move on and learn more in your field.

[Stupot]

Ah yes the Music Education system just keeps grinding out people there are no jobs for, SAE in Glasgow churns out 50+ a year, also Stow College, multiply by the number of population centres that have such courses, how many professional studios can this country support, nae that many. Good skills to learn for making music, not for making a living though. Personally I think you would be better spending course fees etc on your own set up, then learning how to use it well. In this field experience trumps study every time, not to mention contacts. I'm sure its at least fun, but is that worth the time and investment? Your call.

And yet The Warehouse Theatre in Lossiemouth is always struggling to find sound engineers who know their way round a big live sound desk because they're always busy elsewhere.

They need someone to engineer Po'Girl this Saturday. I'm going down to sound check them but can't do the show as I have a gig, but will set the desk up as a unity gain mix. If you know what that means then there's a job for someone that night.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

a) Well thats Lossie, small place=less competition.

b) I'm referring more to Recording Studios than live work, but a lot of these courses don't cover live work.

c) I've been in SAE for a look and some (free)sessions, decent set up, but I don't think its worth the astronomical fees, and I have heard better bedroom productions, FACT, no amount of stating the obvious changes this.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Free Will* is a wonderful thing, I just tend to think there are/will be a lot of dissapointed people without the jobs they think exist, that don't. The democratisation of means of production has meant that more people are capable of having their own facilities, and this impacts on available studio work. The current increase in interest in live music is also possibly cyclical as well, it wasn't that many years ago that the sale of decks overtook that of guitars, as the wheel goes round so things change (and yet stay the same), the key is to do what you really want, not what you think you should want.

I suspect this has strayed off topic so will say no more, I don't want to fall into the trap of taking the internet seriously.

*Unlike Free Hat.

[Fraser Mac]

the key is to do what you really want, not what you think you should want.

See the post above your last one.

I dont think your understanding why the origional post was made, hes doing the graded unit in aberdeen college,

which involves doing a write up about setting up a studio, how you would go about doing it etc,

As for the comments about SAE, are you even aware its an educational facility? if you look at the people that have come out of SAE and some of the work they have gone on to do, how can you say its not worth the fee's?

These people are making a living off of somthing they love doing, and for those that havnt gone on to work in the industry, i doubt they would spend the money on the course to then realise they actually dont enjoy sound production as much as they though.

most will be active in the music buisness in some way,

[FatHand]

I would say that if you are focused, the chance to give yourself the unlimited time you get as a full time student would be amazing. Trying to cram learning production, playing in bands and organising gig stuff after work, although rewarding, at times can get pretty hard going. I would love to have more time to spend on all the different aspects music has to offer, and if I had the money would consider uni/college course an option. Think if you put the time, effort and networking in, these couses are not just money down the drain.

[black_matter]

The aberdeen HNC convers alot of live work, i'm not even doing it till September but there seems alot of it and i can't wait!

I'm not doing this so i can head off into the great wide open world and try make a career, i'm doing the course because i find it interesting and love to learn about it.

But i do see your original point.

There's about say.....two months of live work tops in the Aberdeen HNC.

Rest of its infrastructure, business, unions etc.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

See the post above your last one.

As for the comments about SAE, are you even aware its an educational facility? if you look at the people that have come out of SAE and some of the work they have gone on to do, how can you say its not worth the fee's?

These people are making a living off of somthing they love doing, and for those that havnt gone on to work in the industry, i doubt they would spend the money on the course to then realise they actually dont enjoy sound production as much as they though.

most will be active in the music buisness in some way,

Please tell me all about the many SAE graduates and their ace jobs.

No, actually don't, as your tone is as arsey and bad as your spelling. My point is that there are many who will find that they don't make much of a living, such as the SAE graduands that I have met*, but I don't want to hijack this thread any further. Its only the internet, no need to burn with self-righteousness**, did I not accept that it is the individuals call.

*Purely anecdotal I accept

** Unless thats what you like about it, in which case fire away.

[The Milner]

As for the comments about SAE, are you even aware its an educational facility? if you look at the people that have come out of SAE and some of the work they have gone on to do, how can you say its not worth the fee's?

Do you have any examples?

What percentage of people who do these courses end up in jobs they were going for in the first place and how many end up doing whatever they can get because there are no real jobs avaliable?

[Stupot]

It's not easy to get well paid sound engineering jobs, it never has been. The best, most tried and trusted route is doing free dogsbody work like making tea and sweeping up, then tape op, then setting mics, and eventually someone might let you near a big expensive desk. This is exactly the route I took and i now own the studio were I got my first assistant engineer job. I personally feel it's a good thing to get some decent training but most established sound engineers i know are unimpressed by bits of paper.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

It's not easy to get well paid sound engineering jobs, it never has been. The best, most tried and trusted route is doing free dogsbody work like making tea and sweeping up, then tape op, then setting mics, and eventually someone might let you near a big expensive desk. This is exactly the route I took and i now own the studio were I got my first assistant engineer job. I personally feel it's a good thing to get some decent training but most established sound engineers i know are unimpressed by bits of paper.

How is business holding up with the Recession*, and do you think that Home Recording has had a significant impact on business? I suppose in some instances it might mean that bands/musos are better prepared when they go into a pro studio in terms of organisation, arrangement and expectations, but on the other hand you might get more knowitall types. The career path you mention is almost always the one that I've read about in interviews with most Engineers/Producers that make a living from it, at all levels.

Its a sair fecht for a half loaf, as my Granny often says.

*If you don't mind me asking.

[Stupot]

How is business holding up with the Recession*, and do you think that Home Recording has had a significant impact on business? I suppose in some instances it might mean that bands/musos are better prepared when they go into a pro studio in terms of organisation, arrangement and expectations, but on the other hand you might get more knowitall types. The career path you mention is almost always the one that I've read about in interviews with most Engineers/Producers that make a living from it, at all levels.

Its a sair fecht for a half loaf, as my Granny often says.

*If you don't mind me asking.

Not at all. Frankly, we're busier than ever, despite being located in a small town in Moray. The main effect of the recession has meant that i've gone on to a fixed price scheme for bands looking for a straightforward demo or ep service. ie. not requiring a producer.

We charge a 50 per day standard charge (6hours tracking time) then 10 per track mixing and mastering. This means a band knows exactly how much they'll pay for their recording. There's also little time pressure on them which makes for a better recording session.

The appearance of decent home recording units has killed the demo market, as just about anybody can knock out a half decent non commercial live recording or even a multitrack. All this work was previously done by pro studios in between big projects. Many of the lower to mid end ones have closed.

However, equipping your spare room with an operating theatre doesn't mean you can carry out brain surgery and a commercial release needs pro mixing and mastering. I often find a lot of bands will record their track in their garage and give me a multi track mix to finish and master for them. Or they'll even bring in their digital recorder with tracks all done for me to do a mix. After all, tracking isn't rocket science.

Thankfully, it's not yet possible to master a recording at home but the day will come. It's mainly the cost of mastering gear and software that's prohibitive. Waves platinum for instance is still over 1000.

I often get guys coming in with tracks recorded at other so called studios to have them improved. One local band came in with some truly appalling recording that had cost them 600 for 4 tracks recorded playing live with just a pair of mics in front of them. There was no saving it and we redone the whole thing for them.

It's a pity they parted with so much money in the first place. It's a cautionary tale and I would advise anyone to ask to hear previous recording from anyone who claims to runs a recording studio. If they're worth their salt they'll happily let you hear them. I put up a pile of recordings on my website on a media player so people can hear previous stuff from all genres.

I've never met a know it all in my studio. Most acts are nervous when first confronted by a proper desk and equipment. A vocal booth is quite an intimidating space too and when someone sings through a decent mic for the first time and hears their voice in crystal clear clarity through headphones, it can come as a shock.The guys who've done some of the courses mentioned here are always very interested in the process but none come across as bolshy or arrogant.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Good stuff, as a home recorder (electronic division) myself, I'm always interested in the pro view, and glad to see people can still make a living from good skills(z), no knowitalls is a bonus. Its also interesting to see that people combine doing it at home, and then taking it in for a polish, no time pressure when tracking is an advantage to me, though some may thrive on the challenge.