Aaron Gilman Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 having written a bunch for a bunch of songs, how do i get them to work?what the problem is, that we all end up "singing" the same notes.so how do we get to sing like the beach boys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 Buy a vocal harmoniser by Digitech. Just kidding, What you need to do is see who has the best low/middle/high range, then, for example, one of you sing a line from a song, then the second person sings the same line but each time, the second person changes the note until it sounds like a harmony.The third person does the same. It not be your thing but if you listen to Alice in Chains that is a prime example of good vocal harmony, to some extent even the guy from Korn does some "Barbershop" style harmonies! This is done by 3 layered vocals that are all 1 octave apartCheers Hawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 Might sound stupid, but you should get some idea from this threadguitar harmonies as it's the same concept. Third above. I know it's guitar stuff, but it's the same theory, and Dan knows what he's talking about.Basically, whatever key you're singing in, the harmony line should start a third (four semitones), above that note. Working from that note, sing a similar melody line that sounds right. If you want more than one harmony line, try a fifth above on top. (seven semitones up). The 1st, the 3rd and the 5th note make the 'triad' e.g. C E G. which is what makes good harmony. If that still doesn't work, ask me again when I'm sober... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tam o' Shantie Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 work out who can sing which bits. it's easy for us becuase when i sing-sing as in when i go for it, my voice can go fairly high. way higher than the other 2 lads. adam has quite a high voice but when he sings it isn't really proper singing from the diaphram so it is quite low in comparison to JJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by Frosty Jack:Might sound stupid, but you should get some idea from this threadguitar harmonies as it's the same concept. Third above. I know it's guitar stuff, but it's the same theory, and Dan knows what he's talking about.Basically, whatever key you're singing in, the harmony line should start a third (four semitones), above that note. Working from that note, sing a similar melody line that sounds right. If you want more than one harmony line, try a fifth above on top. (seven semitones up). The 1st, the 3rd and the 5th note make the 'triad' e.g. C E G. which is what makes good harmony. If that still doesn't work, ask me again when I'm sober... Agree fully with this man... although when singing in thirds, it isn't always four semitones above the original note - it varies between 3 and four depending on the key etc. But if you forget the technical aspects, just listen to what actually sounds good.I'm not a singer but here's what I'd suggest:Figure out the vocal line as a guitar melody. This needs to be pretty exact.Then get someone to sing the melody along with the guitar part. Then figure out the harmony part(s) in a guitar melody, and get someone to sing them along with the guitar harmony part. Now, both learn to sing the separate vocal parts, and sing at the same time. It will be pretty tricky for the person singing the harmony because their ears will tell them to sing the 'original' vocal line. But keep trying and you'll get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ibid Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 There are two main concepts for vocal harmony. You can work it out as a simple chord, using 3rds, 5th, or 7ths depending on how many voices you have or the effect you desire. Remember you can go below the lead vocal as well as above.Alternatively, you can sing a different tune to the lead vocal making this alternative tune a 3rd, 5th or 7th above or below the tonal centre of the song. Listen to Simon and Garfunkel or The Eagles to hear this type of harmony. This is more technically difficult that straight interval harmony but sounds more complex.Above all try not to use an digital harmoniser. Unless you pay around 5000 for a decent one, they sound obvious and fake and leave artifacts in the sound...for instance, they can make you sound as if you have a lisp.They also have no respect for off key singing....you then get off key harmonies and it sounds awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 off key harmonising works in some instances. The end of "the thorn within" by Metallica. James sings the chorus at the end with an evil out of tune harmony about 3 or 4 times and the last time he sings "I am the thorn with in" the harmony goes back in to tune, its very effective even although its on Load! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayeth Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by hog dev fucker:its very effective even although its on Load! raaaar!!! heheanyway, I'd really go with the idea of playing the vocal melody on guitar (or keyboard...banjo, whatever) ..singing to that, then doing the changes on the instrument and getting the next singer to sing to that.I've no idea how anyone can tell what note they sing without an instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris h Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 sometimes working out the harmony part, or at least the first note or two, on guitar is useful, but it's not strictly necessary. Sometimes you just sing something that feels right, and hey presto! Although sometimes you just sing something that feels right and look up into the horrified faces of your bandmates It does take a bit of time though, because when you first start trying to do harmonies the overwhelming tendency is to hit the same note as the other singer, as you said at the start. The best thing to do as a beginner is to work out the part and then practice it over and over along with the song, until it just comes naturally when you step up to the microphone, and eventually you'll get into the habit of looking straight for the harmony part and resisting the temptation to sing what the other person is. You just have to keep persisting, and as you get better it will come more naturally. Practising along with a recording of the track, even just a basic acoustic one, is a good idea.This is a really useful thread, by the way. I was never realy aware of the method behind the madness myself (not much of a theory man!). I'm sure it will come in handy in future. Does anyone know of any more unusual harmony tricks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Well apart from the cool use of unusual harmonies by Korn (barbershop style used in "Wake the fuck up" ) and the out of tune harmony used in "The thorn within" by Metallica, the is "By the Way" chorus from the Red Hot Chilli Peppers which goes up and down. For something very different and cool check out "Nettie" by Type O Negatives latest album. Pete Steele layers the harmonies which gives a Gregorian chant style. Its ace! It sounds like a group of Baritone monks lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 If you listen to Simon + Garfunkel, they quite often have their respective vocal lines on either side of the stereo mix. Listen with the stereo panned to one side then the other (or one earphone at a time or whatever) to hear what they're singing separately and how they work together. Another great example of this is 'GP' and 'Grievous Angel' by Gram Parsons. His harmonies with Emmylou Harris are fantastic, and are usually also split left and right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Aaron Gilman:having written a bunch for a bunch of songs, how do i get them to work?what the problem is, that we all end up "singing" the same notes.so how do we get to sing like the beach boys? Okay, take something like the opening of jock girls:Ryan: She takes me for a ride,Ryan: She turns up in a brand new chevy,Ryan, Bob, Milner: I've been gone for so long,Bob: Now I know that something is so wrong.Ryan sings the first two lines on his own and then both myself and Milner come in and harmonise on one line. How do we both get to hit our individual harmonies and not get distracted?1: Force of habit. I know where Ryan and Milner should be, and having sung my harmony a million or so times, I should know not to let my vocal "slide".2: Before it is time for both I and Milner to come in with our harmony, we're already singing it. We both sing the line before but only sing the "official" harmony into the microphone. This gives us time to find the correct range and (ideally) hit the first note "I've" perfectly. That basically it.Other tips:1: When you're listening to your favourite record and the urge takes you to sing along, don't sing in unison. Try singing a harmony instead. Next time you listen try doing the same harmony. Once you perfect that harmony invent another. See how many harmonies are "missing" from your favourite records.2: Use your guitar as a guide to understanding the seperation of a 3rd 5th and 7th. Hit a note on the guitar. Try to sing the intervals. Now apply the same understanding to another vocalist.3: Do as Tom suggest and find out who has the naturally higher/lower voice and who has the best range. This can make things a lot simpler. Milner has a much higher singing voice than both I or Ryan so it makes sense to give him the highest vocal parts rather than have me sing falsetto.That's all I can think of right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Gilman Posted March 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 decent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren M Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 I find it really hard to think of harmonies in 3rds, 5ths and 7ths unless i have a keyboard/piano infront of me and i can SEE where the notes are.Its alot easier to work out a harmony by singing it from the beggining, then there are no worries about specific notes and the harmonies stick in your head from the start. Normally it is quite easy to pick up 3rds and 5ths, and once you get used to it, itll become automatic.If it sounds a crap harmony line, then you'll hear. just like you would hear a wrong note in a chord you played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 nursery rhymes babe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 the above is pretty much all you need to know to start off, but to be honest just experiment - sometimes just panning left and right and having two people sing the same melody produces decent results. Technical term: doubling.Do that with harmonies and it'll sound like you've got an entire room full of people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fables of Faubus Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 practise practise practise.........thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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