Guest MKII Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 *straps self in*http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=punk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 big huge tour busses and glossy mtv videos are not punk and neither are sell out shows in major arenasTo the last part of that sentence i say bollocks. In fact possibly to the second part also. But it would be better for you to tell why such things are not punk first though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 From the site I linkedI like this one..."punk is all about being yourself, liking what you like, doing what you do and not having to live up to someone elses expectations, only your own. there is no dress code, hair colour or rules to be punk, since punk is about being true to yourself."But "being true to yourself" is the ideal of so many movements... Hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 To the last part of that sentence i say bollocks. In fact possibly to the second part also. But it would be better for you to tell why such things are not punk first though.real punk is D.I.Y as phil just saidnot having some smarmy cunt in a suit as your agent, manager, arselickier etc booking you up on some big arena tour playing gigs/making money for people who you have never spoken to in your life and have never heard of in your life. it becomes essentially another faceless capitalist business full of greedy people. one of the things that punk stands against Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 real punk is D.I.Y as phil just saidnot having some smarmy cunt in a suit as your agent' date=' manager, arselickier etc booking you up on some big arena tour playing gigs/making money for people who you have never spoken to in your life and have never heard of in your life. it becomes essentially another faceless capitalist business full of greedy people. one of the things that punk stands against[/quote']So does that mean bands like The Sex Pistols and The Clash weren't punk bands because they were on majors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 So does that mean bands like The Sex Pistols and The Clash weren't punk bands because they were on majors?I would say this is an important question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 So does that mean bands like The Sex Pistols and The Clash weren't punk bands because they were on majors?they were punks, and they were certainly part of that movementmusically they were there at the beginning of punk in mainstream and yes they were punk bands.but if a band were to do that nowadays it would be a totally different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 they were punks' date=' and they were certainly part of that movementmusically they were there at the beginning of punk in mainstream and yes they were punk bands.[/quote']real punk is D.I.Y as phil just saidnot having some smarmy cunt in a suit as your agent' date=' manager, arselickier etc booking you up on some big arena tour playing gigs/making money for people who you have never spoken to in your life and have never heard of in your life.it becomes essentially another faceless capitalist business full of greedy people. one of the things that punk stands against[/quote']Anyone else confused?Anyway, trying to define punk is utterly pointless. Some people might see that it's about spreading a message, for others it's a type of music, and for others it's a scene. No point trying to say who's right and wrong - it's all down to the individual, as is most things in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 they were punks' date=' and they were certainly part of that movementmusically they were there at the beginning of punk in mainstream and yes they were punk bands.but if a band were to do that nowadays it would be a totally different story.[/quote']If a band was to sign to major nowadays they couldn't be consider a punk band? Or just wouldn't be considered a punk band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 i was talking about punk in general (not 27 years ago when it started) this after jimmyjazz asked his original question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Anyone else confused?Anyway' date=' trying to define punk is utterly pointless. Some people might see that it's about spreading a message, for others it's a type of music, and for others it's a scene. No point trying to say who's right and wrong - it's all down to the individual, as is most things in life.[/quote']No, because if something is of real worth, it should be able to be defined clearly, stand up to being questioned etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 If a band was to sign to major nowadays they couldn't be consider a punk band? Or just wouldn't be considered a punk band?both(8 characters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 both(8 characters)Okay, well why couldn't they be? Because you think to be punk you need to be DIY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Okay' date=' well why couldn't they be? Because you think to be punk you need to be DIY?[/quote']because capitalism is one of the things that punk stands againstpower back to the little people an all thatare you intentionally being stupid or are you just trying to wind people up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 because capitalism is one of the things that punk stands againstSays who?Punks were against the socialist (cough) regime in East Germany. No filthy capitalism there, yet the punks caused their fair share of trouble there.Surely punk is more about being true to *yourself* rather than pandering to what other people say? It might suit some punks to spread their message about Bush being an arse to 20 people in a shithole venue in Hartlepool, equally it might suit some punks to spread their message about Bush being an arse to 60 thousand people in Milton Keynes. What's the difference? Anyway, let's see...punk is supposedly against capitalism, as you said. So how do you explain the fact that they use corporate guitars, corporate blank CDR's/tapes/etc, corporate printers, corporate computers and so on?The smart punks are the ones who use capitalists to their own advantage rather than worrying about whether it's betraying some bullshit ethics made up by the people who can shout the loudest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 because capitalism is one of the things that punk stands againstpower back to the little people an all thatare you intentionally being stupid or are you just trying to wind people up?Hey, don't get personal, I'm just asking rather open-ended questions to gain greater insight into your opinion on what "punk" is. Personally I'm less concerned with the politics of punk and more concerned with the legitimacy of it as a means of expression. Obviously they are inextricabley though. In other news I'm actually hyper-intelligent. 8) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 The smart punks are the ones who use capitalists to their own advantageSpot on. I think one of the most important ideas of punk is manipulating the mainstream to represent the underground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 oh christ. i thought we'd seen the end of 'what is punk?' threads.boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen B Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 oh christ. i thought we'd seen the end of 'what is punk?' threads.boring.I think it's been relatively interesting actually, and for the most part bitching-free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MKII Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 oh christ. i thought we'd seen the end of 'what is punk?' threads.boring.What IS punk Dave!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Says who?Punks were against the socialist (cough) regime in East Germany. No filthy capitalism there' date=' yet the punks caused their fair share of trouble there.[/quote']go back and read the post it said "ONE" of the thingsi also think you will find that the punks were against only some of the policies of that regime; proposals for reunification with the west was the spark of mass riots i believe. To reunify was seen as the east swallowing any kind of pride, patriotism and dignity that they ever had. Many punks resented this as they viewed it as purely beneficial for financial reasons and not necessarily a better quality of life, look at the problems that arose after they "unified" unempliyment soared in the "former"east, and many continued to live in poverty as a result of false promises from the west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I think it's been relatively interesting actually' date=' and for the most part bitching-free.[/quote']yea fair enough, but we've seen this discussion a million times before and punk is something that means so much different things to different people that there's no end to the discussion and it'll just turn into a bitchfest of people who believe they're punker than the other guy.to me punk is about pushing yourself and challenging peoples ideas. which begs the question, by becoming the biggest rock band in the world are green day now more punk than a diy band making a noise in a bassment? are they challenging our preconcieved ideas of what punk is? if it's been accepted by our parents and the establishment, if it's become safe then is it still punk? is electronic music more punk than any guitar driven punk music. are we too often confusing punk rock with punk? are rockstar games(makers of the current grand theft auto series, amongst other parent and establishment baiting games) the new punk? is diy really punk when it's constrained by so much snobbery and suspicion? does anyone really give a flying fuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Surely punk is more about being true to *yourself* rather than pandering to what other people say? It might suit some punks to spread their message about Bush being an arse to 20 people in a shithole venue in Hartlepool' date=' equally it might suit some punks to spread their message about Bush being an arse to 60 thousand people in Milton Keynes. What's the difference? [/quote']big difference.these guys in hartlepool are the ones who are at the bottom, they are ones up against it day in day outthe guy who has just rolled up to milton keynes in a brand spanking new all signing dancing tour bus with managers, agents, and loadsa$$$kerchings in his pockets view is totally dilutedAnyway, let's see...punk is supposedly against capitalism, as you said. So how do you explain the fact that they use corporate guitars, corporate blank CDR's/tapes/etc, corporate printers, corporate computers and so on?scraping the barrell a bit there i thinkThe smart punks are the ones who use capitalists to their own advantage rather than worrying about whether it's betraying some bullshit ethics made up by the people who can shout the loudest.thats not smart, its spineless------------------guess what, im not a punk. and i dont really care, but i just thought you should try and understand the other side of the *arf* coinproblem is, as usual, you refuse to accept it. its a shame.i can fully accept your way of thinking, i just dont believe in it in the slightest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummerOfIntenseEvil Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 because capitalism is one of the things that punk stands againstpower back to the little people an all thatYou can bring power back to the little people and still be a capitalist, idealogically speaking at least.Stateless Capitalism, or to give it one of it's other names which is much more Johnny Rotten friendly, Anarcho-Capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Where's all the lists then so we can see what punk means to different people???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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