betamax

maybe not but you were the one who came on here complaining about it thus flaming down your arguement about not caring about money.

my critisism only applies to musicians who have cash high on their agendas for being a musician

plus

those who get caught up in the whole money thing once they get a bit and it goes to their head

Im also allowed to have my own ideology that music comes from a hobby should be free music

I dont think Ive actually critised Geneveeve as a band either.

So why the numerous hard ons?

if money's so unimportant in a band betamax then how come when i was sacked by your band one of the (many some justified granted) reasons i was fired from your band was that gig at the moorings when we were paid a rather handsome fee of 250 quid - the support bands were paid 50 quid each and i took 50 quid for helping to put the gig together (yes to partly fund me alcohol problem and partly to put food on the table but i was really struggling finacially at the time) and the band walked away with a rather handsome 100 quid for a 45 minute set?

i'll just add that i did pay that 50 quid back even though betamax himself wouldnt take it' date=' bass man nick did.[/quote']

nick is a whore, im not responsible for him

ps its not ''my band'' - you cant own a band.

At the risk of being boastful' date=' our postal overheads are fairly steep too.

It's a hobby, however every little helps to keep things ticking over.......[/quote']

my God some humility!

a hobby it may be but its cheaper and cooler than Golf or Football

Your first bit doesnt tie into this comment though does it:

How can even talented people make money if they cant charge for anything or are you changing your arguement now ?

Cheers

Stuart

learn to read and engage your fucking brain for once you tit

Ah I see now Mr Spankmyass By saying that you do not make music for money reasons and because your need is great then you claim to be highly talented and we are not worthy?

Makes sense now!

How old are you?

Are you in a band?

Do you have mates?

You sound like you are a 30 something thats never made' date=' or likely to, and you have become twisted and cynical!

The term DEMO - a demonstration of what you do and primarily for handing over purposes. Do not mistake that for a cd with a great deal of money spent on it and in essence a self release of which a charge is absolutely fucking fine in my and many's book!!![/quote']

Im glad we disagree, you sound like me when I was also 14 and a half. I grew up eventually. If I send you a Thomas and Freinds annual you might understand it?

im only against making money as one of the main motives....im sure Ive said that bit already yus? theres pound signs in the eyes of many a shit band and its quite ugly

PS. Ive accidentally made loads of money from music, and still do from time to time, but its not why I do it.

Very thoughtfull of you to post on here that you will play for free.

J

we usually play for free, we certainly never ask to be payed but occasionally a pushy promoter trys to pay us and then we ask for Red Wine instead

Professional involvement = substantial overheads?

I just mean, once you have professional involvement like label staff or a full time manager etc, then they need to be payed so its impossible to keep it all free. But untill then, Im all for keeping it free. Charging people for what you do for your own enjoyment in your free time seems twatish/pretentious to me. Most musos are pretentious twats* like so its logical.

*This is a fact - I did it at University.

''seems to be claiming'' - your point is void

That's probably true' date=' but it's

a) A matter of opinion - what sounds like a burning pet shop to you might be the soundtrack to someone else's dreams

b)Not the point in hand here.

What Mr Bittermax [b']seems to be claiming is that no-one should ever charge money for something they've made themselves, no matter how good it is (unless there is 'professional involvement'?)

You are twisting words Frosty Ass

Money as a by-product of success and talent is fine

Extracting money for your demos generally does not come under that heading IMO

But If people want to do get into the whole money thing before theyve even cut their musical teeth then fine it cool, but beware of the dangers, more bands fight and split up because of cash than girlfriends!

Like the sound of the pet shop thing though. Patent that.

....''or think you have''....THATS A CLUE!

So in your opinion' date=' if you have a wee spark of talent,[b'] or think you have, and choose to try building on a life using said talent because hey that's what you do and dream of doing, then don't! Stop and get a job! Am I correct?

This seems a tad bitter and I will add pathetic. Oh an funny!

laugh if you want you idiotboy

but no

I mean just be realistic and dont get your hopes up about making a career in music, especially if making money is high up your list of motives for doing music in the first place - which judging by some of clueless and naive shit being written here, it blatantly is. Generally, the people who excel at music and have genuine talent and inspiration rarely consider doing it for cash when they start out. If they later make cash as a by-product of said talent, thats a bonus, but it seems theres quite a few wide eyed idoits lurking in aberdeen who have put cash up the agenda even higher than say ''enjoyment''. Taking it FAR too seriously imo, especially when you look at what talent there actually is. Its bullshit quite frankly. With a touch of ego fuelled blindness.

So what Im saying is not ''stop'' its just make sure you do it for the right reasons ansd stay real, or yes you would be better off working at the TSB, and probably have more chance of acheiving your dream of riches if you put a few quid on the Lottery every week.

I think statistically Im right on this. How many bands ever get to do it for a living compared the millions of bands there are in the world?

I agree with a lot of what you've said!

My Sundaramusic stuff will always be free!!!

and funnily enough its usually the free music that shines (like Sundaramusic!)

K.B.K. will also always be free too unless theres any professional involvement.....if we could play live for free we would everytime but obviously its the venue policies to charge on the door dammit

Im just against charging money for something which is the product of a hobby. Which is realistically all demos and EPs are. Its like somebody making imitation toy trains in a shed and then selling them for more than a real train, when all their only investment or business risk has been a few evenings work and the cost of some glue and balsa wood. ''But hey Ive got to pay for my Glue and Blasa wood maaaan!, and what about the cost of lighting my shed!!!!....If Im gonna build the HMS Victory and sell it to the Royal Navy then ill need to recoup my expenditaure on powering this 40 watt light bulb and the purchase of this workbench from Argos!!!!......and dont forget the cost of the petrol to the model-makers fair in Wigan!!! I want that back too!!! So I can pretend Im professional!!!''

Get real.

From personal experience Ive had songs Ive written on both commercial realeases and done freebie demos etc and made the same from both .....next to nothing (after every else one else involved has taken their cut). But when I do a demo to hand round, Im sorry but Id be embarressed to ask people for money for it. Not because of the quality, but simply because a demo is not a commercial commodity, just something I did in my spare time, and would have done anyway for my own fun, so why ask my mates to give me cash for it????

Main point no one ever seems to get: If you do this whole music thing to make money or even ''break even'', then give up now. Go to college and get a job in a bank. If you DIY, you are talking pennies and wasting a lot of time counting them. If you get signed you are talking lots of cash. But not for you. Youll be in debt for years.

Nothing against Geneveeve though, Im talking about the broader issue of bands fooling themselves that they can be sellable or profitable commodities.

Plus: Music should be free anyway. (another thread)

The EP will be available within the next week and you can get one from any member of the band and from our gigs for £3.50.

Thats expensive. I just got the Niles Barclay single for 1.79 and without being rude Id imagine it cost a lot more to make than your EP. I suggest you rethink your pricing policy.

Demos, Eps or whatever you want to call them should be free imo. If theres a national or international distributor or full time label staff and/or management involved then thats when a charge should kick in. But without that, charging anything for a DIY CD is ripping people off.

How big is that chip on your shoulder?

there might be a small chip but at least its mine, payed for and I can do what I want with it!

so does that mean its now possible to sign yourself up to rip yourself off finantially and systematically destroy any talent you may have in favour of making the blandest possible mucical contribution in an attempt to pay of your signing on advance?

think of it, 20 years of paying a debt back to yourself and self inflicted musical compromise!

genius!

If that is the true story' date=' then maybe everyone can stop praising him. If he pulled a gun first then it's his own damn fault.[/quote']

Agree. He did some good stuff musically and its sad when anyone leaves the planet (generally anyway) but anyone who carries a gun and shoots first dosent deserve any respect at all, despite being a decent rapper. Id generally see anyone who carries a gun as a complete @rsehole. Most of America basically.

captain sensible also had a successful career in the 90's doing music for the computer game developer Sensible Software' date=' creators of Cannon Fodder and Sensible Soccer.[/quote']

Ha ha Sensi Soccer was ace. Cost me numerous jobs and relationships! I had no idea the Captain was behind that. Thats quite punk. He pissed on my mates older brothers face at a gig too.

Anyway

Punk as an ideology has morphed into political rules based conformist (conforming by predictable non conforming) pile of poo. Its a hypocritical Joke.

Punk as an artform or form of expression is still around thankfully. Scarce but still pops up with different levels of subversiveness, individualism and raw creativity in the most unexpected places. The place you'll never find it is at ''punk'' gig however. Thats become like one of those Elvis tribute things. Harmless retro fun but not punk at all.

On balance Id say punk as what it stood for in 1976 is well and truly dead and buried.

Some brilliant music happened but erm, move on.....

Some of the music is good however.

guns dont kill people

wappers doooo!

Kick out the Jams – MC5

Funhouse – The Stooges

International Rescue – Swell Maps

Crossing the Red Sea with the Adverts – The Adverts

Another Music in a Different Kitchen – Buzzcocks

Peaches – The Teaches of Peaches

Rembrant Pussy Horse – Butthole Surfers

Never mind the Bollocks here’s the – Sex Pistols

LCD Soundsystem – LCD Soundsystem

Pink Flag – Wire

Crass - Stations of the Crass

Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables – Dead Kennedys

Live at the Witch Trials - The Fall

2 x 45 – Cabaret Voltaire

Prayers on Fire - The Birthday Party

Entertainment – Gang of Four

Ramones - Ramones

Rid of Me - PJ Harvey

Germ Free Adolesants - X Ray Spex

Fever to Tell - Yeah Yeah Yeahs

Killing Joke - Killing Joke

Obviously the definition of punkness varies but mines based on albums that as well as being completely snotty and incendiary and therefor musically perfect, they also, on release flew in the face of everything else around at the time and still do to some extent despite lotsa attempts to copy them......a few recent ones too!

No way just 10 was possible.

Edit: added some more to annoy someone.

Im out of synch with the majority on the YYYS album by the looks of it......

Fever To Tell is just such a special, dirty, brutal and unhinged record. I love the live feel to it. The new one sounds ok really but its quite erm, normal and ordinary. Id expected Fever to Tell with knobs on. Not a glossy radio freindly album with a couple of obvious hit singles on it. Its like what happened to PJ Harvey's style after the awesome ''Rid Of Me'' album. The next few albums just got more and more like regular safe indie records as they tried to market her for wider audiences, which imo is a waste of talent and probably why she never really reached her true potential. Blah Blah....

Anyway dont get me wrong, The YYYs are still up there as one of the best bands of now imo, and one slightly disappointing album (to me at least) dosent alter my sick adoration of Karen O!

For info: Flaming Lips were finally ejected from the Betamax Sound System yesterday in favour of the old fave Nouvelle Vague* album and the new Hed Kandi Twisted Disco comp. The Lips are now relegated to in-car entertainment.

*this is classic and everyone should own it if they dont already if only for the fantastic cover versions of Too drunk to Fuck (Dead Kennedys) and Pssyche (Killing Joke).

I love it. Nothing else is getting near my cd player as a result. Mostly late nite lazy listening. I like it better than Yoshimi overall, althouigh theres nothing quite as immense as ''Fight Test'' or ''Do you realise?'' on it.

Im seriously underwhelmed by the YeahYeahYeahs album tho.....what the fuck happened there?

JJ72 at the Lemon Tree' date=' October 2000, around the 13th I think.[/quote']

watever happened to them? shite but hyped to fuck and then vanished! (unsurprisingly)

Realm of The Shopping Trolley @ Drummonds circa 1991

Walked in stright from the train station on my first day of the banana boat from Northern England as an immigrant to Aberdeen. Saw this great band, from Glasgow (I think) and decided i liked it here. Also went to Wild Boar for food and liked it there too. Rarely been home since. Yo.

i generally vote for the female singer with the hairiest armpits or sweatiest back

but ill be voting for anything but this preposterous rock rubbish as this is a democratic erection

absolutely love da eurovision, highlight of zee musical calender (sort of), and always a good drunken euro party at chez betamax

yo

gotta say that the tunes spun were absolutely top class all nite, nice to hear reggae played so loud (how it should be heard imo), it made we wonder if the PA was gonna blow up - plus wee Horace was remarkable as expected!

It did pull a good crowd which was nice to see, Id kinda half expected it to be quiet cos Id not seen a lot of publicity. V good nite.